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    Default Why isn't...

    Why isn't there a key of F-flat?

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    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    You mean F-flat minor?

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    Because there's E...

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    -----------------------------------
    Last edited by SeptimalTritone; Nov-19-2020 at 23:29.

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Why isn't there a key of F-flat?
    Because then there'd be one for B#.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member GucciManeIsTheNewWebern's Avatar
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    Don't those technically exist? I thought they were just useless theoretical equivalents of the enharmonic key

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GucciManeIsTheNewWebern View Post
    Don't those technically exist? I thought they were just useless theoretical equivalents of the enharmonic key
    Only MillionR knows the right answer for the purposes of this thread. The rest is just close-minded academic thinking.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member GucciManeIsTheNewWebern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Only MillionR knows the right answer for the purposes of this thread. The rest is just close-minded academic thinking.
    Ah yes, of course. I'll just hang out in my ivory tower for now

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    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeG View Post
    Because there's E...
    But there is no black key between the E and the F keys. It is a good question. Likewise there is no black key between B and C. How did they ever come up with that setup? I know all of western music stands on this crazy set-up and it makes for the most beautiful music, but how did anyone figure it out?

    What if we move some of the black keys to those blank spaces, leaving blanks in different places? What would happen to our music then?
    “Then he will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!'" Matthew 25:41 (Christian Standard Bible)

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    Senior Member GucciManeIsTheNewWebern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    But there is no black key between the E and the F keys. It is a good question. Likewise there is no black key between B and C. How did they ever come up with that setup? I know all of western music stands on this crazy set-up and it makes for the most beautiful music, but how did anyone figure it out?

    What if we move some of the black keys to those blank spaces, leaving blanks in different places? What would happen to our music then?
    ---‐-------------------
    Last edited by GucciManeIsTheNewWebern; Nov-20-2020 at 02:41. Reason: Duplicate

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    Senior Member GucciManeIsTheNewWebern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    But there is no black key between the E and the F keys. It is a good question. Likewise there is no black key between B and C. How did they ever come up with that setup? I know all of western music stands on this crazy set-up and it makes for the most beautiful music, but how did anyone figure it out?

    What if we move some of the black keys to those blank spaces, leaving blanks in different places? What would happen to our music then?
    You could look towards other musical traditions where they employ microtones and different scale systems to satisfy your curiousity. I wonder what the results would be like if those non-Western traditions were as theoretically well developed as Western Art Music

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Only MillionR knows the right answer for the purposes of this thread. The rest is just close-minded academic thinking.
    Shut this puppy down, now.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Why isn't there a key of F-flat?
    There absolutely is. I encountered it once, in Verdi's Don Carlo. There was a difficult passage, with flying triplets up and down the full range of the bassoon, everything flat with B-double flat. I had a hell of a time learning it, until I realized it was in F-flat major. B-double flat was the subdominant, C-flat the dominant. What tweaked my brain (in terms of learning this passage) was E-flat functioning as the leading tone. But once I understood what was going on, it was much easier to learn.
    Last edited by Knorf; Nov-20-2020 at 05:31.

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    Senior Member mikeh375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Why isn't there a key of F-flat?
    Because all of the other keys are racist, as is evidenced by the majority of listeners on this forum who only listen to erm, the other keys and not that one...

    The key exists (the OP knows this of course), but is used infrequently. We all know it can become necessary to spell as such for good voice-leading, or if allied to a fastidiousness regarding harmonic logic and precision. This can lead to the use of spelling that involves double flats (and double sharps in other keys of course), but practicalities that favour ease of reading are certainly also valued and depending upon context and resolutions, the key of E might be more practical as double flats (and sharps) can become unwieldy and confusing in some situations.
    The use of double flats and sharps in an actual key signature is rarely used too in classical/romantic music. Is this about equal temperament MR?

    I can't immediately recall a piece solely in Fb but it wouldn't surprise me if there's a piece or passage in some Schubert. Either way, the key of Fb exists in theory and sometimes practice and Knorf is our witness, so case, on the face of it, closed. (Phil's Bsharp in post5 exists too for that matter, but no-one would thank you for it if you used it).

    As the agenda is yet to be revealed, one can't help but wonder if we are about to kop another bout of theoretical virtue signalling from MR.....
    Last edited by mikeh375; Nov-20-2020 at 14:07.
    New website and some new music......www.mikehewer.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Heggelund View Post
    You mean F-flat minor?
    No, F-flat major.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh375 View Post
    The key exists (the OP knows this of course), but is used infrequently. It can become necessary to spell as such for good voice-leading, or if allied to a fastidiousness regarding harmonic logic and precision. This can lead to the use of spelling that involves double flats (and double sharps in other keys of course)...The use of double flats and sharps in an actual key signature is rarely used too in classical/romantic music. Is this about equal temperament MR?...the key of Fb exists in theory and sometimes practice...


    Could you spell the scale, please?
    Last edited by millionrainbows; Nov-20-2020 at 13:15.

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