View Poll Results: Do you believe in greatness in music?

Voters
128. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    108 84.38%
  • No.

    20 15.63%
Page 111 of 138 FirstFirst ... 1161101107108109110111112113114115121 ... LastLast
Results 1,651 to 1,665 of 2057

Thread: Do you believe in greatness in music?

  1. #1651
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    6,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    You apparently didn’t read the OP which indicates what the meaning is behind each choice and it was a simple choice of pure subjectivity or not.

    And my, what a reaction to simply reminding you that the poll that gave rise to all this discussion went against you 5/1. This a classical music poll section of the forum after all.
    Here is the OP: "Do you believe in greatness in music?

    It seems that those who believe in greatness in music usually establish criteria to be used to recognize it, and that those who do not believe tend to reject these criteria in favor of the idea of total subjectivity in the evaluation of the arts, governed only by individual perception (taste). Therefore, we have those who see "great" as a kind of synonym of "favorite", and those who don't. Note that acknowledging that greatness exists do not imply to believe that it's easy (or even possible) to quantify it.

    I perceive this question as being central to many discussions here on TC, and I would like to see the overall response of this community to it."
    I see the 'it seems" and "usually establish" parts and other qualifiers, but I missed the part where it is clearly enunciated to be a choice between "objective" and ''subjective" opinions. That's the reason for my very first post. No Sale.
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Apr-20-2021 at 00:58.

  2. #1652
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    So. California, USA
    Posts
    3,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    I see the 'it seems" and "usually establish" parts and other qualifiers, but I missed the part where it is clearly enunciated to be a choice between "objective" and ''subjective" opinions. That's the reason for my very first post. No Sale.
    C’mon now. It’s right there in the opening of the OP: Those who believe in greatness in music usually establish criteria to recognize it and those who don’t believe [in greatness] tend to reject these criteria in favor of total subjectivity governed only by individual perception (taste).

    And then the poll question is asked. Do you believe in greatness or not?

    There are no qualifiers that change the basis for, or the intent of, the poll question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allerius View Post
    It seems that those who believe in greatness in music usually establish criteria to be used to recognize it, and that those who do not believe tend to reject these criteria in favor of the idea of total subjectivity in the evaluation of the arts, governed only by individual perception (taste). Therefore, we have those who see "great" as a kind of synonym of "favorite", and those who don't. Note that acknowledging that greatness exists do not imply to believe that it's easy (or even possible) to quantify it.

    I perceive this question as being central to many discussions here on TC, and I would like to see the overall response of this community to it.

  3. #1653
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I just think it is ironic that a classical music discussion is struggling with this when I would think listeners of non-classical music would likely believe that classical music is serious, quality music. I have friends who do not listen to nor do they appreciate classical music but they sense that classical music is well crafted art like a great oil painting. This is not unusual.

  4. Likes BachIsBest liked this post
  5. #1654
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    6,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    C’mon now. It’s right there in the opening of the OP: Those who believe in greatness in music usually establish criteria to recognize it and those who don’t believe [in greatness] tend to reject these criteria in favor of total subjectivity governed only by individual perception (taste).

    And then the poll question is asked. Do you believe in greatness or not?

    There are no qualifiers that change the basis for, or the intent of, the poll question.
    But as I made crystal-clear in my first post and critique of the OP, which did not properly clarify the situation regarding at least my views as perhaps the only total subjectivist: that I too, like essentially everyone else, find some music and art great. That error voided the question of substance as a legitimate choice. Furthermore, the notion was put forward as a tenet in the OP that there were some who had no criteria for determining greatness in art. Given that it cannot be demonstrated that anyone rejects the idea that, for them, some art is great, all No votes are voided as meaningless. Allerius might want to rephrase the question to eliminate the false negatives that his question generated, and have it poll whether people are objectivists or subjectivists, or where they fall on a spectrum, both groups of whom recognize great art in some manner or other. Who doesn't?
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Apr-20-2021 at 04:28.

  6. #1655
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    6,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    I just think it is ironic that a classical music discussion is struggling with this when I would think listeners of non-classical music would likely believe that classical music is serious, quality music. I have friends who do not listen to nor do they appreciate classical music but they sense that classical music is well crafted art like a great oil painting. This is not unusual.
    I am sure you do have such friends. So do I. I also know others who have no interest in CM or whether it is crafted well or badly. This is all called anecdotal "evidence" or authentification by testimonial. And we have established that some great oil paintings are not well-crafted, and others are executed with great skill to accomplish...nothing.

  7. #1656
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    I am sure you do have such friends. So do I. I also know others who have no interest in CM or whether it is crafted well or badly. This is all called anecdotal "evidence" or authentification by testimonial. And we have established that some great oil paintings are not well-crafted, and others are executed with great skill to accomplish...nothing.
    Sorry sir/madam, but I don't know what you are talking about.

  8. #1657
    Senior Member Chilham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    In my castle
    Posts
    941
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    ... And then the poll question is asked. Do you believe in greatness or not?

    There are no qualifiers that change the basis for, or the intent of, the poll question.
    Incorrect. The poll question asked, "Do you believe in greatness in music?", and then qualified the question in the post.

  9. Likes Strange Magic liked this post
  10. #1658
    Moderator Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    27,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It is also a rather unfortunate fact of life that many people here simply do not read the first post before posting or voting.

  11. Likes BachIsBest, Chilham, Strange Magic liked this post
  12. #1659
    Senior Member BachIsBest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    834
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    It is also a rather unfortunate fact of life that many people here simply do not read the first post before posting or voting.
    I swear on my life that I have never ever done this beyond the number of times that I did exactly this.




    Actually, I've only done it once or twice. Sue me.

    Although I am in the objectivist camp, I do agree that very little can be concluded from this poll as it is a self-selected group of internet people who may have misread what the poll was asking. Unless someone came around claiming that virtually no one believes in any sort of greatness in music, this poll helps any argument very little.

  13. Likes Chilham, Strange Magic liked this post
  14. #1660
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    6,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    Sorry sir/madam, but I don't know what you are talking about.
    How can I help?

  15. #1661
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,772
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    I just think it is ironic that a classical music discussion is struggling with this when I would think listeners of non-classical music would likely believe that classical music is serious, quality music. I have friends who do not listen to nor do they appreciate classical music but they sense that classical music is well crafted art like a great oil painting. This is not unusual.
    Here you go again imagining what other people think, and isn't it odd that your hypothetical person always proves your point!

    But the reality is that the vast majority of people don't think about classical music at all. Or if they do they associate snobbish judgmental opinions expressed by classical music listeners about other genres of music.

  16. Likes Barbebleu liked this post
  17. #1662
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    So. California, USA
    Posts
    3,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilham View Post
    Incorrect. The poll question asked, "Do you believe in greatness in music?", and then qualified the question in the post.
    Incorrect order of taking part in a poll. You read the OP and then vote in the poll. When one creates a poll in the first place, you post the OP and then you are able to create the poll questions. If people are confused by the OP, they shouldn’t vote. I’m sorry you were confused.

  18. #1663
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    6,213
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    Incorrect order of taking part in a poll. You read the OP and then vote in the poll. When one creates a poll in the first place, you post the OP and then you are able to create the poll questions. If people are confused by the OP, they shouldn’t vote. I’m sorry you were confused.
    Such a victory! Even Pyrrhus of Epirus would think he'd won a better. But congratulations; the laurels are at hand.

  19. #1664
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    So. California, USA
    Posts
    3,744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    Such a victory! Even Pyrrhus of Epirus would think he'd won a better. But congratulations; the laurels are at hand.
    Since the author of the poll could not be here today, I’d like to accept this award on his behalf. It was a difficult challenge, but there were countless people behind the success, too many to thank individually. It is, at the very least, an incentive to keep bringing truth and analytic perspective to the rest of the world. It is one success, but the beginning of many successes to follow.

    40BB6E79-5314-4FA4-B0F3-9E33104C42BC.jpg
    Last edited by DaveM; Apr-20-2021 at 19:42.

  20. Likes Strange Magic liked this post
  21. #1665
    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    (not so)Great Britain
    Posts
    4,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Subjectively speaking of course!

    BTW, I meant to ask. Who is the greatest, Strange Magic or DaveM? Should I start a poll?
    Last edited by Barbebleu; Apr-20-2021 at 19:57.
    "...it is said that first your heart sings, then you play. I think if it is not like that, then it is only just combination of notes, isn't it? " - Pandit Nikhil Banerjee, Master of the Sitar.

    ‘When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!‘

    ‘Common sense is not a gift, it's a curse. Because you have to deal with people who don't possess it!’

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •