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Thread: If you had to de-throne one of the ‘big three’...,

  1. #76
    Senior Member GucciManeIsTheNewWebern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post


    I don't know if you ever read what I write, but the sort of "predictability" Huge Gee meant was more like a part of the idiom Mozart worked with, rather than one of his own unique traits. Also, I'll say this again; Classical expressions like his involved dramatic contrast in terms of dynamics and mood in a way that had not been done previously.
    K.257: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZmY-ScPo8M&t=8m8s (8:08~10:05)
    K.243: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUPCgiOFwg4&t=10m43s (10:43~14:10)
    Don't worry Hammered I read your posts
    Maybe not all of them, but I generally I do.

    I have a love-hate relationship with the classical period. I think 'hate' is a strong word because it's always well-crafted and never aurally offensive, but that 'predictability', while admittedly a part of the idiom, often sounds sorta drab to my ears. To be honest, it's always on a piece to piece basis for me

  2. #77
    Senior Member Amadea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Over seven days.
    Let me rephrase it: how can you tolerate that music for more than one hour without going crazy?
    Last edited by Amadea; May-06-2021 at 18:12.

  3. #78
    Senior Member SeptimalTritone's Avatar
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    Over time, you get acclimated to Schoenberg/Boulez/Stockhausen/others by listening and getting a feel for what makes the music tick at the gut level. It's not easy at the beginning and may take a while to get used to, but the musical experience is worth it. You get more out of it by acclimating to it.

    Of course, it's not for everyone and there's no imperative to like it but I still think it's worth pursuing.

    I think that the best introduction to atonal Schoenberg would be Pierrot Lunaire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd2cBUJmDr8, a colorful and dramatic piece for voice and a unique chamber ensemble - this piece has a whimsical dark humor and pastoral color.

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  5. #79
    Senior Member Amadea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GucciManeIsTheNewWebern View Post
    I have a love-hate relationship with the classical period. I think 'hate' is a strong word because it's always well-crafted and never aurally offensive, but that 'predictability', while admittedly a part of the idiom, often sounds sorta drab to my ears. To be honest, it's always on a piece to piece basis for me
    Speaking of, some time ago I found this short 5 min interview with Rob Kaplow which explains how Mozart takes different directions than expected and has deceptive simplicity. You might find it interesting: https://www.npr.org/2009/08/13/11163...=1618426979559
    Last edited by Amadea; May-06-2021 at 18:22.

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadea View Post
    Let me rephrase it: how can you tolerate that music for more than one hour without going crazy?
    What makes you think I’m not crazy?

    Mozart at his best is really unpredictable - the modulations are just unbelievable - he takes you far far away from the home key and brings you back with such grace. He is an amazing composer - I fully understand Hammeredklavier’s enthusiasm for Mozart in fact, and to some extent I share it.
    Last edited by Mandryka; May-06-2021 at 18:27.

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  8. #81
    Senior Member Amadea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    What makes you think I’m not crazy?

    Mozart at his best is really unpredictable - the modulations are just unbelievable - he takes you far far away from the home key and brings you back with such grace. He is an amazing composer - I fully understand Hammeredklavier’s enthusiasm for Mozart in fact, and to some extent I share it.
    Except Stockhausen you already mentioned, what other composers do you love?

  9. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadea View Post
    Except Stockhausen you already mentioned, what other composers do you love?
    Machaut. Sainte Colombe. Peter Ablitzer.

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  11. #83
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadea View Post
    I of course was talking in a hypothetical scenario in which I was forced to choose another one instead of Mozart who could possibly compete. In my opinion Verdi is great. Maybe because I'm from his city... lol. What do you think about Verdi vs Mozart? Verdi has the strong passions of romanticisms on his side.
    Verdi is my 2nd favorite opera composer, so no argument from me whenever Verdi is praised.

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  13. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrahmsWasAGreatMelodist View Post
    Wagner competes with him for opera; no one does for piano concertos.
    There's a poll on the "greatest opera composer" here at TC, and Wagner is currently winning by a wide margin, followed by Mozart and Verdi, that are technically tied. These three composers received much more votes than any other, including Puccini, Rossini or Strauss. Here's the link to it.
    Last edited by Allerius; May-06-2021 at 19:46.

  14. #85
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    All the Mozart operas are too compromised apart from Figaro. I mean, Magic Flute’s kindergarten music: .
    Magic Flute’s ‘kindergarten music’:




  15. #86
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    All the Mozart operas are too compromised apart from Figaro. I mean, Magic Flute’s kindergarten music, Don Giovanni has too much sex and violence and that ridiculous self righteous coda, Cosi fan Tutte is boring as hell after the interval - and nobody bothers with any of the others.
    Yeah, well, he's no Stockhausen.

  16. #87
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    Kindergarten music



    You can even see the kids on the clip.
    Last edited by Mandryka; May-06-2021 at 20:53.

  17. #88
    Senior Member Amadea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    Magic Flute’s ‘kindergarten music’:
    Also "Ach, ich fühl's":

    So kindergarten.

  18. #89
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    I would dump Mozart and add Haydn. A lot of the sound qualities of Mozart was done first by Haydn. Haydn also invented the two most important orchestral groups of all time: the string quartet and the symphony.

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    And too much sex in Don Giovanni



    (I think this is brilliant staging -- it fits the music so well. A revelation.)

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