Page 2 of 22 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 324

Thread: How do we bring back Classical Music for the Average Joe ?

  1. #16
    Moderator Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    26,059
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    I doubt that Classical music is higher in the East than the 1% (nor has it ever been much higher) for the rest of the world; Jazz also accounts for 1% of the global market. The masses go for music which is more obviously entertaining: Rap, Pop and Country - and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Agreed with that. Based on my personal experience (which is of course a limited sample), I doubt it as well. I lived almost four years in Singapore. My wife and I went to concerts of the Singapore symphony orchestra a number of times - it was never sold out, in spite of programming 'bums on seats' war horses. My staff and sales office colleagues (total about 50, most of them polytechnic or university graduates) had zero interest in classical music. My Shanghai family-in-law (including uncles, aunts and cousins of my wife) are mostly university educated, and the only interest a few of them show in classical music is when a Western orchestra has a guest appearance, because it is 'in' to spend a lot of money on tickets for that (the show-off factor).

  2. #17
    Senior Member Haydn70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Posts
    875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    No they haven't. They have been replaced with coding, computer engineering, and hard sciences, by people who continuously devalue humanities courses because their view of higher education is as job training.
    You are incorrect and mbhaub is correct. Computer and science courses have not intruded into the humanities. He pointed out the way classical music has been devalued in the humanities, specifically by music academics.
    Last edited by Haydn70; May-19-2021 at 20:51.

  3. Likes advokat liked this post
  4. #18
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    7,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn70 View Post
    You are incorrect and mbhaub is correct. Computer and science courses have not intruded into the humanities. He precisely pointed out the way classical music has been devalued in the humanities, specifically by music academics.
    Maybe there's a reason for that: the perceived value of Classical music has lost ground, and more students sign up for classes on popular culture classes instead of the classics.

    There is nothing to worry about, though, since all things pass including the hegemony of the music of the common practice period.

  5. Likes architecture, science liked this post
  6. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Classical music is becoming a growing streaming market according to this Forbes article; reaching a share of 32%.

    => https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissa...h=797a479c2894

    statistic =>
    960x0.jpg

    This 2019 abc.net article is even more optimistic => "The study found that 35% of adults listened to classical music. Classical music was the fourth most popular music genre, with more fans than R&B or hip hop."
    => https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-...music/11418000
    Last edited by Andrew Kenneth; May-19-2021 at 21:03.

  7. Likes science liked this post
  8. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    46
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    No they haven't. They have been replaced with coding, computer engineering, and hard sciences, by people who continuously devalue humanities courses because their view of higher education is as job training.
    These reactionary "woe-is-me" statements are far removed from reality.

    No matter what university system you're referring to, few, if any, universities- even those explicitly focused on technical disciplines- require students to take classes in "coding, computer engineering, and hard sciences." Nobody's "devaluing" the humanities to any unreasonable extant. Nobody's out to get you.

    In fact, most (practically all) universities do have burdensome humanities requirements for their students, even when such requirements are excessive, socially problematic, and unreasonable. Just because offerings are no longer limited to the white male canon doesn't mean the humanities are being ignored.
    Last edited by architecture; May-19-2021 at 21:06.

  9. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,082
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    To be blunt, I think my statement that universities are now far more about extremely expensive job training is more supportable than "kids are learning Michael Jackson instead of Bach at music academies".

  10. #22
    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    7,883
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Kenneth View Post
    Classical music is becoming a growing streaming market according to this Forbes article; reaching a share of 32%.

    => https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissa...h=797a479c2894

    statistic =>
    960x0.jpg

    This 2019 abc.net article is even more optimistic => "The study found that 35% of adults listened to classical music. Classical music was the fourth most popular music genre, with more fans than R&B or hip hop."
    => https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-...music/11418000
    Streaming numbers can be misleading since listening to ten seconds of a track would count. Which is why data on purchasing patterns are a more reliable indicator of actual support. Also sites like Spotify have curated albums such as "Classical Music for Studying ... Reading ... When It's Raining", etc. that infuriate me when I'm searching for a composer's music but must be designed for the "Average Joe."
    Last edited by SanAntone; May-19-2021 at 21:09.

  11. #23
    Senior Member Haydn70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Posts
    875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    To be blunt, I think my statement that universities are now far more about extremely expensive job training is more supportable than "kids are learning Michael Jackson instead of Bach at music academies".
    To be blunt, that means you haven't looked at university course offerings in music.

  12. Likes architecture, ORigel, Conrad2 and 1 others liked this post
  13. #24
    Junior Member Marcos's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    UK/Germany
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    In the UK the BBC used to promote classical music quite actively e.g. Young Musician of the Year used to be on BBC1 (when there were only 3 channels to chose from). The ratings must have been 5 Million at least, maybe much more. Now it is on BBC4 where there is no risk of Joe Public bumping into it.

  14. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,082
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn70 View Post
    To be blunt, that means you haven't looked at university course offerings in music.
    And you haven't looked at the job market, or what college advisors are telling students. The focus is on job training. Any time public universities come in for funding cuts, the emphasis is on "workforce", as if the purpose of higher learning is to improve our workforce, and not educate.

  15. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Streaming numbers can be misleading since listening to ten seconds of a track would count. Which is why data on purchasing patterns are a more reliable indicator of actual support. Also sites like Spotify have curated albums such as "Classical Music for Studying ... Reading ... When It's Raining", etc. that infuriate me when I'm searching for a composer's music but must be designed for the "Average Joe."
    The abc.net article also states that : "Those surveyed were almost evenly split on whether they listened intently to classical music or played it in the background. Respondents in South Korea were most likely to be "purist" listeners, sitting down and listening closely.".

    So, without the "classical background listeners" there still remain 17% attentive classical listeners.

    And to be fair, an awful lot of people are "background pop listeners" too. It's not a classical music only phenomenon.
    Last edited by Andrew Kenneth; May-19-2021 at 21:21.

  16. Likes Alinde liked this post
  17. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

    “American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need.” The solution? Let business “shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees.”

    In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

    If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
    Ehh most Universities in the US, still require a common set of classes in General Education. So people take humanities classes, science classes, to fill up their general ed requirements.

  18. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

    “American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need.” The solution? Let business “shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees.”

    In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

    If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
    This is ironic. Why ? Because the Liberal Arts Degree can eventually outearn STEM majors in the long run. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/b...-salaries.html

  19. #29
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,464
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.

    Your frogs make me shudder with intolerable loathing and I shall be miserable for the rest of my life remembering them.
    — Mikhail Bulgakov, The Fatal Eggs

    When a true genius appears on the earth, you may know him by this sign, that all of the dunces are in confederacy against him.
    — Jonathan Swift

  20. Likes Haydn70, WildThing, BachIsBest and 1 others liked this post
  21. #30
    Senior Member Haydn70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Posts
    875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
    Spot on.

    (Gotta get my 15 characters with this)

Page 2 of 22 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •