Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 177

Thread: Is George Szell one of your favorite conductors?

  1. #136
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    3,998
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merl View Post
    Victor Borge was a mere mechanical time-beater (* slaps Knorf around the face). James Last, on the other hand, put himself in the shoes of the composer speaking to the audience. Borge reads off in strict dictation like a stenographer.
    We can all agree, I'm sure, that Florence Foster Jenkins plumbed the depths of all music she performed....her rendition of "Queen of the Night" aria revealed the profound philosophical truth of Mozart's creation!! lol!!

  2. Likes Brahmsian Colors liked this post
  3. #137
    Senior Member Brahmsianhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,797
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heck148 View Post
    her rendition of "Queen of the Night" aria revealed the profound philosophical truth of Mozart's creation!! lol!!
    How old are you?

  4. #138
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    6,400
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heck148 View Post
    We can all agree, I'm sure, that Florence Foster Jenkins plumbed the depths of all music she performed....her rendition of "Queen of the Night" aria revealed the profound philosophical truth of Mozart's creation!! lol!!
    I dunno, have you ever heard Shura Gehrman's Schubert Lieder? Sounds like someone's trapped his fingers in a door. Lol. I don't do lieder anyway but that is painful. I have it on that Brilliant Classics Schubert box. I once used it to clear the house after a party. Worked a treat.
    Last edited by Merl; Jul-24-2021 at 17:32.

  5. Likes Heck148 liked this post
  6. #139
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    5,266
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post
    How old are you?
    Btw, Borge also asks a kid "How old are you?" at around 1:10 in the video I cited in [Post#130]. What I wanted to say with that post was "I think people in this thread are getting too serious they need to laugh and relax a bit, LOL! Both Szell and Furtwängler were equally great at their trade —why is there a need to quarrel over this issue?"
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Jul-24-2021 at 17:53.

  7. Likes wkasimer liked this post
  8. #140
    Senior Member Brahmsianhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,797
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    Both Szell and Furtwängler were equally great at their trade —why is there a need to quarrel over this issue?"
    Ask the people insisting on a continuous straw man argument. I made my opinion known pages ago. Apparently I’m not entitled to it.

  9. #141
    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    3,347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post
    Ask the people insisting on a continuous straw man argument. I made my opinion known pages ago. Apparently I’m not entitled to it.
    Two hints for you, in hope of learning and growing:

    1) Your opinion, such as it is, was never the problem.
    2) It is not an example of the "straw man" logical fallacy when people are calling you out on or disputing what you literally wrote, or very close, accurate-within-reason parahrases of what you wrote. If you're unhappy with responses to what you wrote, it's on you to clarify what you mean.

    Misapplication of straw man fallacy accusations, and false claims that you're not entitled your opinion, are neither doing you any good at all nor are they fooling anyone who can go back and read exactly what you wrote. Gaslighting will not help you.

  10. Likes Merl, Heck148, wkasimer and 2 others liked this post
  11. #142
    Senior Member Brahmsianhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,797
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorf View Post
    Two hints for you, in hope of learning and growing:

    1) Your opinion, such as it is, was never the problem.
    2) It is not an example of the "straw man" logical fallacy when people are calling you out on or disputing what you literally wrote, or very close, accurate-within-reason parahrases of what you wrote. If you're unhappy with responses to what you wrote, it's on you to clarify what you mean.

    Misapplication of straw man fallacy accusations, and false claims that you're not entitled your opinion, are neither doing you any good at all nor are they fooling anyone who can go back and read exactly what you wrote. Gaslighting will not help you.
    1) I never said that music contains philosophical truth. That is a distortion of my description of a perfect performance existing in the abstract that the performer is trying to achieve. And the distortion is a sophomoric attempt by a certain poster to “win” points.

    2) I never said that one conductor has possession of the “truth” and others don’t. I have said that he and others seek the inner depth of a musical score as a philosophy, and certain others treat the score as self-evident. This is not a news flash.

    3) I don’t care what “problem” you have with me. You’re not going to bully me on this forum. Why don’t you stick to discussion of the music? The simplest way to avoid straw man accusations is to quote someone directly as opposed to putting your own self-serving spin on their argument.


    .
    Last edited by Brahmsianhorn; Jul-24-2021 at 19:52.

  12. #143
    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    3,347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Well, my friends, I tried.

    Getting back to this thread's actual topic, one of the demonstration recordings I like to use is Szell's Cleveland recording of Smetana's Overture to The Bartered Bride, mastered for SACD. It's just a spectacularly vivid performance and recording! Szell's Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream suite is similarly great, just sensationally good.

  13. Likes Brahmsian Colors, wkasimer liked this post
  14. #144
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Ford Nation
    Posts
    5,792
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post
    1) I never said that music contains philosophical truth. That is a distortion of my description of a perfect performance existing in the abstract that the performer is trying to achieve. And the distortion is a sophomoric attempt by a certain poster to “win” points.

    2) I never said that one conductor has possession of the “truth” and others don’t. I have said that he and others seek the inner depth of a musical score as a philosophy, and certain others treat the score as self-evident. This is not a news flash.

    3) I don’t care what “problem” you have with me. You’re not going to bully me on this forum. Why don’t you stick to discussion of the music? The simplest way to avoid straw man accusations is to quote someone directly as opposed to putting your own self-serving spin on their argument.


    .
    I think your 2nd point is the one in contention, in relation to Szell.

    From Szell's biographer, himself a conductor:

    "His personal goal was to approach each score with the clearest possible understanding of the composer’s style and intentions."

    http://georgeszell.com/a-personal-reminiscence/

    In other words, he was not a literalist

    "What he said of Toscanini could also be said of Szell: “That he was a literalist in the trivial sense of the word is, I believe, nonsense. It is not possible for an artist like Toscanini to be a literalist; he was, I would rather say, a truth-seeker.” "
    Last edited by Phil loves classical; Jul-24-2021 at 20:50.
    "But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying..." Peter Sinfield

  15. Likes AClockworkOrange liked this post
  16. #145
    Senior Member Brahmsianhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,797
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If someone has a problem with what I said about Szell, be a man and say so rather than distort and embellish on my point in an attempt to teach me a lesson and bully me out of ever saying something “out of line” again.

    I stand by everything I have said about Szell. I actually don’t find him cold. The playing in the Marcia funebre of his Eroica is very sensitive and beautiful. But I find the interpretation two-dimensional. As I said on page one, IMO he barely skims the surface. Others find more depth, NOT just Furtwängler.

    Does that mean I hate Szell? Not at all. His R. Strauss is superb, especially the Don Juan. His Slavonic Dances are my favorite next to Talich. But even in these works, I like Szell realizing these are works where there is a limit on the interpretive depth to be had.

    That’s my take, and if anyone has a problem with it they can kiss my fanny, but DO NOT go around trying to embellish on my statements and go straw man.

    That’s the coward’s way.

  17. #146
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    6,400
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brahmsianhorn View Post

    That’s my take, and if anyone has a problem with it they can kiss my fanny,.. . .


    [QUOTE]. . . .. .. . ............. [.. /QUOTE]

  18. Likes Knorf liked this post
  19. #147
    Senior Member SONNET CLV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Paradise, Montana ... on
    Posts
    3,459
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Whatever is said in this thread of George Szell one way or another, I stand by my contention that my absolute favorite recorded version of one of my absolute favorite symphonies, the "From the New World" by Antonín Dvořák, is the recording made by George Szell with the Cleveland Orchestra in March of 1959, near the close of the Cleveland's 41st season, at Severance Hall.

    B-v-Szell.jpg

    This recording, from "back in the day" when the "New World Symphony" was known as number 5, is one of the symphonic pieces that early grabbed my attention as "classical music" and held me in its grip from that first hearing till ... now, and onward.

    If I had to live with only one Dvořák recording, this one would be my choice.

    If I had to live with only one Szell recording, ... ditto.

  20. Likes Knorf, Merl, haziz and 1 others liked this post
  21. #148
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Western Massachusetts, US
    Posts
    3,062
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SONNET CLV View Post
    Whatever is said in this thread of George Szell one way or another, I stand by my contention that my absolute favorite recorded version of one of my absolute favorite symphonies, the "From the New World" by Antonín Dvořák, is the recording made by George Szell with the Cleveland Orchestra in March of 1959, near the close of the Cleveland's 41st season, at Severance Hall.

    B-v-Szell.jpg

    This recording, from "back in the day" when the "New World Symphony" was known as number 5, is one of the symphonic pieces that early grabbed my attention as "classical music" and held me in its grip from that first hearing till ... now, and onward.

    If I had to live with only one Dvořák recording, this one would be my choice.

    If I had to live with only one Szell recording, ... ditto.


    An excellent recording of a superb masterpiece. His recordings of Dvorak's Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 as well as the Slavonic Dances are also superb. His recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto accompanying Fournier on the cello, this time with the Berlin Philharmonic, is my all time favorite recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.
    Last edited by haziz; Jul-25-2021 at 13:43.

  22. Likes Merl, SONNET CLV, Radames and 1 others liked this post
  23. #149
    Senior Member SONNET CLV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Paradise, Montana ... on
    Posts
    3,459
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by haziz View Post
    An excellent recording of a superb masterpiece. His recordings of Dvorak's Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 as well as the Slavonic Dances are also superb. His recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto accompanying Fournier on the cello, this time with the Berlin Philharmonic, is my all time favorite recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.
    The final three Dvořák symphonies are available in a 2-CD set which also features some music by Smetana, all conducted by Szell:

    B-u-IMG0.jpg

    That disc is also in my collection. Unfortunately, I do not have the Fournier performance in my collection, but I'm looking into picking it up. Thanks for the recommendation.

  24. Likes Knorf liked this post
  25. #150
    Senior Member Radames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    736
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by haziz View Post
    An excellent recording of a superb masterpiece. His recordings of Dvorak's Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 as well as the Slavonic Dances are also superb. His recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto accompanying Fournier on the cello, this time with the Berlin Philharmonic, is my all time favorite recording of the Dvorak Cello Concerto.
    Yes - that is also my favorite Dvorak Cello Concerto. Szell's Dvorak Symphonies are the best. Too bad the earlier ones were not popular then and he never recorded them. My favorite Szell recording is his Beethoven 3rd. Never equaled to this day.

Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •