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Thread: 1773: Mozarts level at 17

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    Default 1773: Mozarts level at 17

    In 1773 Mozart was 17, he wrote a bunch of works, including Symphony no 25, Piano concerto no 5 and the Divertimento K.136.

    Is there any other composer that can compare to this 17 year old, did any others make such high standard of music at such a young age?
    Last edited by Art Rock; Jul-31-2021 at 21:22. Reason: title change as discussed with OP

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    Mendelssohn was superior at 17.
    By age 15 (1824) he had written a dozen "string symphonies" (a few of which are not only strings), one full orchestral symphony, counted as first, one concerto each for piano/strings, violin/strings, piano/violin and two concertos for two pianos and orchestra.
    With 17 he had the Midsummernight's dream ouverture, the octet, the first string quintet and lots of other chamber pieces (3 piano quartets, a string quartet, a sextet with piano and strings etc.) Not all of the latter or the string symphonies are as "great" as later works but neither are the first 30 symphonies or dozen of string quartets by Mozart.
    With 18 he wrote the a minor string quartet op.13 that is at least the equal to Mozart's quartets dedicated to Haydn.

    Purcell was also quite good very young, I think he wrote all of his consort fantasias and a dozen of trio sonatas as well as a bunch of choral works as a teenager but maybe he was already 20.

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    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreisler jr View Post
    Mendelssohn was superior at 17.
    "Recent research by Nicolas Kitchen of the Borromeo Quartet reveals that a more mature Mendelssohn somewhat substantially edited the score before its final publication in 1832." https://www.earsense.org/chamber-mus...t-major-Op-20/

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreisler jr View Post
    With 18 he wrote the a minor string quartet op.13 that is at least the equal to Mozart's quartets dedicated to Haydn.
    "At least the equal"? How can you be so sure? They're different pieces written at different times. When do you think Haydn himself, for instance, "equals" Mozart's sophistication in use of harmony in those quartets?
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Jul-31-2021 at 21:32.

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    Senior Member SONNET CLV's Avatar
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    1773

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm Theophilus View Post
    In 1773 Mozart was 17, he wrote a bunch of works, including Symphony no 25, Piano concerto no 5 and the Divertimento K.136.

    Is there any other composer that can compare to this 17 year old, did any others make such high standard of music at such a young age?

    I'll say only this: there was at the time, in 1773, a three year old in Bonn, Germany, who was doing, I suspect, a pretty good job of listening to music, some of which I garner was by Mozart. That's meaningful, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNET CLV View Post
    1773




    I'll say only this: there was at the time, in 1773, a three year old in Bonn, Germany, who was doing, I suspect, a pretty good job of listening to music, some of which I garner was by Mozart. That's meaningful, too.
    What was he doing at 17?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post

    "At least equal"? How can you be so sure? They're different pieces written at different times. When do you think Haydn himself, for example, "equals" Mozart's sophistication in use of harmony in those quartets?
    If you think I'll take the bait for another thread derangement by your anti-Haydn obsession, you are mistaken.

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    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    Mozart is my all time favorite, but I haven't heard it all...I usually point to string quartet no. 13 (K173) to try to convince people that he was mature and fabulous, if they didn't already know, at an early age. Mendelssohn also grew up pretty fast and for me is reminiscent of Mozart and pretty fabulous too.
    Cheers

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    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreisler jr View Post
    If you think I'll take the bait for another thread derangement by your anti-Haydn obsession, you are mistaken.
    I'm just asking you to explain your claims, which I find bizarre; Mendelssohn's Op.13 equals Mozart's Haydn quartets. How can you compare those pieces written at different times and different standards of aesthetics; isn't it more reasonable / easier to compare Mozart's work with his own contemporaries'? What are your "criteria" for judging? There's no need to get so sensitive.
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Aug-01-2021 at 00:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Heggelund View Post
    Mozart is my all time favorite, but I haven't heard it all...I usually point to string quartet no. 13 (K173) to try to convince people that he was mature and fabulous, if they didn't already know, at an early age. Mendelssohn also grew up pretty fast and for me is reminiscent of Mozart and pretty fabulous too.
    Cheers
    would you agree with Kreisler jr that "Mendelssohn was superior at 17"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm Theophilus View Post
    would you agree with Kreisler jr that "Mendelssohn was superior at 17"?
    No, sorry Kreisler jr I might be incompetent with anything regarding Mozart...I love Mendelssohns op. 44 but have been kind of anti-octet...I'm slowly getting rid of my prejudices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm Theophilus View Post
    What was he doing at 17?
    Gearing up to go where Mozart didn't.

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    Some wonderful chromatic melodies in the Marian litany, K.195 (1774):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE8aGRFkQWk&t=4m44s
    also the "sancta maria" and "agnus dei" and chromaticism of the "salus infirmorum":
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE8aGRFkQWk&t=7m26s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE8aGRFkQWk&t=24m24s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE8aGRFkQWk&t=16m
    Compare them with works by composers around this period such as J.A. Hasse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjetil Heggelund View Post
    but have been kind of anti-octet...I'm slowly getting rid of my prejudices.
    The Mendelssohn octet is impressive, but sounds slightly "chatty" to me in the concluding movement.
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Aug-01-2021 at 01:30.

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    I think Mozart, Mendelssohn and Korngold are the "canonical" child prodigies of composition, though im interested in knowing if any lesser known ones are out there in the outskirts of the repitoire.

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