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Thread: Michael Jackson-Most Overrated Of All Time

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    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Default Michael Jackson-Most Overrated Of All Time


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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    Everything in popular music is overrated, as overrated as McDonald's fries, or as Krispy Kreme doughnuts.

    It's the nature of mass marketing.

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    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Michael Jackson is not over-rated.

    Michael Jackson was an incredibly gifted performer whose style captured the imagination of millions of fans during the 1980s. His records were extremely well produced, often by Quincy Jones, and his song selection was impeccable. His videos were short films and works of art.

    I was never a fan, there are many other singers I like a whole lot more - but I can recognize his talent and accomplishments.

    The comment that "everything in popular music is overrated" is ridiculous.

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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Michael Jackson is not over-rated.
    That's just, like, your opinion, man...

    The comment that "everything in popular music is overrated" is ridiculous.
    Everything in popular culture is overrated.

    If I'm wrong, then the Greatest Work of Art Ever Made is the cycle of Avengers movies, J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter series is the Greatest Literature of All Time, Thomas Kinkade is the Great Painter Who Ever Lived, and Irving Berlin's "White Christmas" is the Greatest Piece of Music Ever Written.
    Last edited by Knorf; Aug-14-2021 at 20:12. Reason: Better living through edits

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    I don't particularly want to get into a p***ing contest but MJ certainly wasn't the all-round talent/self-sufficient entity that Prince was. In that respect I would also go as far to say that he lagged behind Stevie Wonder and Sly Stone as well. Jackson was gifted in one or two respects but what he was capable of overall was outweighed, and thus distorted, by the combined sales of his albums. The ideas put forward by the more fanatical cult-like factions of his fan base that he bestrode the music world like a colossus and that no-one else came remotely close before or during his career were as toe-curling as they were preposterous.
    Last edited by elgars ghost; Aug-14-2021 at 20:49.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

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    Senior Member Knorf's Avatar
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    N.B. "overrated" should never, ever be taken as a synonym for "not good."

    Popular culture, as swept along by economic forces and driven by mass marketing, overrates everything. Of course it does. It's in its nature.

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    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    That's just, like, your opinion, man...
    As are all posts on the forum, man ...

    Popular culture, as swept along by economic forces and driven by mass marketing, overrates everything. Of course it does. It's in its nature.
    You are equating major sales with over-rated. I think that some artists have been met with high critical praise, some despite poor sales, others in spite of their success. I don't agree that the critical press covering popular music is so slipshod that they have "over-rated everything."

    That is just a bit too reductive and superficial of a comment.

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    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorf View Post
    Everything in popular culture is overrated.

    If I'm wrong, then the Greatest Work of Art Ever Made is the cycle of Avengers movies, J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter series is the Greatest Literature of All Time, Thomas Kinkade is the Great Painter Who Ever Lived, and Irving Berlin's "White Christmas" is the Greatest Piece of Music Ever Written.
    Your comment makes sense only if a significant number of people have actually made those claims--which they haven't. As SanAntone indicates, plenty of works enjoy popular success without being hailed as "the best ever."
    Alan

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    All legendary figures are overrated. It's 2021, we don't do Great Man Theory anymore, man.

    Good tunes, though.

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    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Michael Jackson is not over-rated.

    Michael Jackson was an incredibly gifted performer whose style captured the imagination of millions of fans during the 1980s. His records were extremely well produced, often by Quincy Jones, and his song selection was impeccable. His videos were short films and works of art.

    I was never a fan, there are many other singers I like a whole lot more - but I can recognize his talent and accomplishments.

    The comment that "everything in popular music is overrated" is ridiculous.
    Very nice short summing up of his talent and accomplishments.

    Yeah, Michael Jackson's influence on popular music and culture is actually pretty profound.

    As with many of whom we can recognize as such, he did seem to have considerable help from another, Quincy Jones, although I'm not really sure of just HOW MUCH. Jackson also had an instinct for self-promotion, and he had the product to back it up, regardless of how it was manufactured.

    Earlier this year I bludgeoned my way through most of his video catalog, and musically it's consistently good, and cinematically the videos were mostly excellent.

    I do find it irritating that I cannot help but hear (and watch) his stuff without his creepy personal life tainting it; the weird obsession with young boys, and the chronic facial surgeries that eventually made him look somewhat like a horror film character, with the remnants of a nose, and that cartoony built up cleft chin, AND the transformation from black man to white man.



    There's already been comparisons to Prince, and that's fair. Two black musicians that captivated fans, both with a catalog of music that's impressive.

    Musically I'd actually have to give the edge to Prince; in addition to his skills as a songwriter and singer, he also was an excellent guitarist.



    JUST ONE OTHER THING: THAT is really one of the most UNFLATTERING video screen shots of Jackson that could have been used.

    Between that and the title of the video I can already guess what sort of vibe the video is going to have.
    Last edited by pianozach; Aug-19-2021 at 22:53.

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    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    He had a lot of talent/skill (talent is not enough, one also must work very hard). I was never a fan. Too bad he messed up his face. Guess it doesn't matter now.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; Aug-19-2021 at 16:49.
    'To do good whenever one can, to love liberty above all else, never to deny the truth, even though it be before the throne.' --Ludwig van Beethoven

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    He's got a few ahead of him on the list of most over-rated pop stars. Kanye West, and Beyonce for starters.
    In Mahler I usually prefer the Solti approach -caveman having a seisure whips orchestra into a frenzy!! - Radames, TC member

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    He's got a few ahead of him on the list of most over-rated pop stars. Kanye West, and Beyonce for starters.
    I do rate Beyonce's voice - such a pity that the pro-forma r 'n' b slop which is constantly dished up for her will never do it proper justice.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    I do rate Beyonce's voice - such a pity that the pro-forma r 'n' b slop which is constantly dished up for her will never do it proper justice.
    Same scenario with Mariah Carey. A great voice performing substandard material to sell records.
    In Mahler I usually prefer the Solti approach -caveman having a seisure whips orchestra into a frenzy!! - Radames, TC member

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    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    I do rate Beyonce's voice - such a pity that the pro-forma r 'n' b slop which is constantly dished up for her will never do it proper justice.
    On Beyoncé's last album, the universally critically acclaimed "Lemonade", Beyoncé helped in writing the material, although the songwriting credits for most of the tracks look more like laundry lists. The songwriting credits for the 3rd track ("Don't Hurt Yourself" (featuring Jack White)) are interesting: Jack White,Beyoncé,Diana Gordon,James Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, John Bonham. The lads from Led Zeppelin get what is now referred to as "sample credit". And, to her credit, her name is usually listed 2nd or 3rd on the list of credits for any given song.

    Unlike Elvis though, whose writing credits were often "negotiated" in exchange for him releasing a song, Beyoncé helped come up with the concepts, and actually worked WITH a writing team.



    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Same scenario with Mariah Carey. A great voice performing substandard material to sell records.
    Mariah Carey appears to have co-written a great many of her songs. It seems that she gets sole lyricist credits on an awful lot of them.



    That said, neither are not really "overrated". They were both fabulous singers, and their songs are adored by millions.

    As for "influence", I doubt that, in the long run, that Carey will be thought of in that way, but it's very possible that Beyoncé WILL be.

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