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Thread: English Touring Opera (ETO) Goes Woke .....

  1. #61
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    What does "woke" mean, in the context of the Lebrecht article ( which doesn't use the word) and others on the same story such as the Daily Mail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...diversity.html
    Last edited by Forster; Sep-14-2021 at 06:34.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Sid James's Avatar
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    Thank you for the Daily Mail article. It spells out the bad timing of this decision, which is what came to my mind when reading Lebrecht's post:

    It is the latest blow to musicians, who were unable to work for the majority of the pandemic and were forced to rely on grants and loans.

    Musicians said they had hoped the Spring 2022 season would see them return to work and be an opportunity to repay debts racked up during the pandemic.


    The real test of a policy is how it works out in practice. Perhaps the negative publicity will make the arts bureaucracy think about how they can improve implementation of this policy.

    It also looks like the Arts Council and ETO are playing a bit of a pass the hot potato game. They're obviously not on the same page about it, which is a problem since it can potentially impact on so many musicians.
    Last edited by Sid James; Sep-14-2021 at 13:45.
    Genuine ersatz classical listener since 1981.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    The Mail reports that the Arts Council, "didn't tell the ETO to send the letter," but the ETO letter doesn't claim that it did, only that it was acting "in line with firm guidance" from the Council.

    If those who were not reengaged can establish that in law, they were unfairly dismissed, then they may get some satisfaction.

    However, the letter is rather woolly with regard to the "sackings", saying, "It does seem likely that ETO will not be in a position to offer you a freelance engagement."

    There's a way out through compromise here.
    Last edited by Forster; Sep-14-2021 at 07:43.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Sid James's Avatar
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    Bad luck to the employees for being caught up in this mess. Its a case of really bad timing and probably of poor communication between the powers that be. The right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

    I'm surprised that all those orchestras signed up to the I'M IN program last year, when the pandemic was already underway. Government organisations don't do things like this on a whim. They would have spent years planning this policy. It seems that not even a global pandemic was going to prevent it from being rolled out.
    Last edited by Sid James; Sep-14-2021 at 13:09.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    I think, from what we've been able to glean, that the musicians concerned have been treated unfairly, but they would have difficulty in proving that their treatment was unlawful.

    The ETO is a business registered as a charity, not a government organisation. But it is part funded by the Arts Council which acts to invest government (taxpayers') money in the Arts. That means the ETO would be expected to operate with policies consistent with other public bodies' (though of course it would still have to write its own).
    Last edited by Forster; Sep-14-2021 at 08:22.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    but one should never take it as tacit truth that things were purely meritocratic before the diversity people got their hands on it.
    we should assume its because of racism?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryPenfold View Post
    There's something about rightning (sic) a wrong with another wrong that troubles me!
    where is the initial wrong?
    Last edited by Wilhelm Theophilus; Sep-14-2021 at 11:15.

  8. #68
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm Theophilus View Post
    we should assume its because of racism?
    Know Eye Dear ..........
    Last edited by HenryPenfold; Sep-14-2021 at 10:40.

  9. #69
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
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    The UK Music Union is among other things seeking legal advice and it's good to know that the sacked musicians will be getting some support.

    It appears that as much as half the orchestral players have had their services terminated.

    I wonder if there is a surfeit of orchestral players in the market now, given many orchestras must have let a lot of players go due to the lack of demand because of the pandemic.

    This may have the unexpected consequence of more and better choices for hirers of orchestral players.

    Perhaps good news for classical music fans and orchestras, but a bit of a bummer for those trying to earn a living in an already difficult industry.
    Last edited by HenryPenfold; Sep-14-2021 at 10:38. Reason: repetition

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  11. #70
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    ETO statement on their own website.

    English Touring Opera has written today to a number of audience members and musicians who have questions about a report in the Sunday Times related to the recruitment of musicians. The text of our letter is below. [continues]
    https://englishtouringopera.org.uk/n...elance-players

    I'd like to have seen The Times original article, but as it's behind a paywall, I only saw others' take on the story. I wonder if this addresses in any way, the concerns raised by The Times, or, more importantly, by the freelancers themselves.

    It was published 3 days ago. I note that Slipped Disc has not yet caught up.
    Last edited by Forster; Sep-18-2021 at 07:31.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryPenfold View Post
    The term 'sacked' is s generic term used when an organisation terminates the services or service of an individual, and that's what is happening here. Whether the individual is engaged for service or services is not going to make any difference to the person losing their livelihood. 20 years is most certainly not irrelevant because it relates to someone's livelihood, how they've been earning a living, in the conventional sense, for a long time. The human impact is enormous.

    The statement of the boss makes it very clear to the recipient and anyone reading it, what the reason and consequence of this management decision is.
    You are quoting articles from The Times and the daily Mail which have a history of trying to stir right wing, conservative opinons. They have an axe to grind.

    The musicians were not sacked. They are freelancers hired on a self-emplyed basis. Sacked means they were removed from a job that they already had - which is not true.

    They are not being re-engaged for the 2022 season, because ETO has had a series of auditions and has chosen not to renew the contracts of all of the musicians that is has previously used - however they say they might be able to use the muscians at a later date.

    Clearly the ETO has taken an view towards its legal obligations toward Equality& Diversity and has decided to audition a pool of musicians for its 2022 season rather than simply renew contracts, and have hired musicians from their auditioning process.

    Organisations in the UK are required to promote Equality & Diversity rather than just be it. It is written into the statute of the UK's Equality Act. Clearly the ETO has taken a view that simply renewing the temporary contracts of its existing pool of musicians was not going to meet its legal duty and went through a process of auditioning musicians to expand and renew its pool of musicians.

    There is a clear difference in meaning between sacking someone and not renewing someone's temporary contract when it comes to an end.

    This is right wing "culture wars" propaganda, twisting the meaning of words to suit the agenda of right wing editors and politicians.

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  14. #72
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexD View Post
    You are quoting articles from The Times and the daily Mail which have a history of trying to stir right wing, conservative opinons. They have an axe to grind.

    The musicians were not sacked. They are freelancers hired on a self-emplyed basis. Sacked means they were removed from a job that they already had - which is not true.

    They are not being re-engaged for the 2022 season, because ETO has had a series of auditions and has chosen not to renew the contracts of all of the musicians that is has previously used - however they say they might be able to use the muscians at a later date.

    Clearly the ETO has taken an view towards its legal obligations toward Equality& Diversity and has decided to audition a pool of musicians for its 2022 season rather than simply renew contracts, and have hired musicians from their auditioning process.

    Organisations in the UK are required to promote Equality & Diversity rather than just be it. It is written into the statute of the UK's Equality Act. Clearly the ETO has taken a view that simply renewing the temporary contracts of its existing pool of musicians was not going to meet its legal duty and went through a process of auditioning musicians to expand and renew its pool of musicians.

    There is a clear difference in meaning between sacking someone and not renewing someone's temporary contract when it comes to an end.

    This is right wing "culture wars" propaganda, twisting the meaning of words to suit the agenda of right wing editors and politicians.
    I quote nothing. I referred to the ETO director's letter to his musicians which states that he is terminating their service because they do not comply with his racial and otherwise criteria. A sacking in common parlance.

    Now go away before I get angry with you.

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  16. #73
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryPenfold View Post
    Now go away before I get angry with you.
    Too late already, I think. Why would you get angry? And why should anyone have to leave, just because you might? You have your view on what has happened, others here have a different view, though they don't post angry if challenged.

  17. #74
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    Too late already, I think. Why would you get angry? And why should anyone have to leave, just because you might? You have your view on what has happened, others here have a different view, though they don't post angry if challenged.
    Who threw you a bun?

  18. #75
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryPenfold View Post
    Who threw you a bun?
    You did. This is a forum, not a private conversation.

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