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Thread: AI has finished Beethoven's 10th Symphony...

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    Default AI has finished Beethoven's 10th Symphony...


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    Senior Member Livly_Station's Avatar
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    This will be fun.

    If the music is bad or mediocre, I'll just forget it.
    If the music is great, I'll have no issue praising it, and I wouldn't mind if orchestras started to play it (unlikely), but I'll never call it a Beethoven symphony. The composer is more like AI/Musicologists based on themes and the style of Beethoven.

    Btw, I enjoy Cooper's reconstruction of the 10th's supposed 1st movement, although lacking in form and development.
    Last edited by Livly_Station; Sep-25-2021 at 23:49.

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    Senior Member Couchie's Avatar
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    It's quite good (though not memorable), but sounds more like middle Beethoven than late, probably because they trained the model on all of Beethoven's symphonies. A better idea might have been to train it on only late Beethoven, and perhaps the music of Beethoven's heirs, Brahms, Schubert, even Wagner.
    Doch dieses Wörtlein: und, -wär' es zerstört,
    wie anders als mit Isoldes eignem Leben wär' Tristan der Tod gegeben?

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    The way Beethoven worked, there's no way anyone or anything could "reconstruct" something he'd barely even thought of starting. It's like a mechanical Rosemary Brown. Not even worth pretending to listen to.

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    Senior Member Livly_Station's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
    The way Beethoven worked, there's no way anyone or anything could "reconstruct" something he'd barely even thought of starting. It's like a mechanical Rosemary Brown. Not even worth pretending to listen to.
    The main point of the project is probably training AI to see what they can do now, and set some precedents for future developments in the area. Reconstructing Beethoven is just (a) good marketing to get funds and publicize the work and (b) an interesting challenge to set some grounds and parameters for the project, which is important.

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    I would agree it's good promotion and marketing -- but there are people who will believe it really did it. The Soviet musicologist who "reconstructed" a Tchaikovsky Seventh Symphony had more to work with, and made Columbia Records a mint, but poor Peter I. must have been turning over in his grave. :-)

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    I suspect that a message from beyond Ludwig’s grave might go something like this:

    There’s a reason I died after #9. The bucket list was complete.

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    In any event, it does actually sound like Beethoven, though lacking in a strong memorable theme.

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    Senior Member Livly_Station's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
    I would agree it's good promotion and marketing -- but there are people who will believe it really did it. The Soviet musicologist who "reconstructed" a Tchaikovsky Seventh Symphony had more to work with, and made Columbia Records a mint, but poor Peter I. must have been turning over in his grave. :-)
    Nobody who will bother with this reconstruction will believe it's truly a "ressurrection" of the composer through AI. And even if this project got a sudden popular interest for some miraculous reason, then soon would come the cavalry to explain the blasphemy and demystify any wrong ideas. There's no reason to worry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Livly_Station View Post
    Nobody who will bother with this reconstruction will believe it's truly a "ressurrection" of the composer through AI. And even if this project got a sudden popular interest for some miraculous reason, then soon would come the cavalry to explain the blasphemy and demystify any wrong ideas. There's no reason to worry.
    :-) .

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    Senior Member mbhaub's Avatar
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    It would be easy to demonstrate how silly this is: they've fed all of Beethoven into the computer - so give it a smattering of the Ninth and see what it comes up with. I guarantee it won't be the Ninth we know.
    "It is surprising how easily one can become used to bad music" - F. Mendelssohn

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    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    First, it is not a Beethoven composition. Secondly, it does not contain any new ideas, just extrapolations of old, previously used, music (however, this is not how composers actually write new works).

    All I can deduce from this exercise is that their purpose was not to create meaningful and worthwhile music (that they can never do) but to advance the technology of AI.

    Why is this of interest to a Classical music forum?

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    Senior Member Livly_Station's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    Why is this of interest to a Classical music forum?
    Because unless you're extrapolating reasons to disqualify this as classical music (although the discussion itself is already worth a thread), you'll notice that this is actually a full-fledge Symphony in the classical style, even if it's not truly a work by Beethoven. Thus, this topic appropriate for this forum.

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    Senior Member SanAntone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livly_Station View Post
    Because unless you're extrapolating reasons to disqualify this as classical music (although the discussion itself is already worth a thread), you'll notice that this is actually a full-fledge Symphony in the classical style, even if it's not truly a work by Beethoven. Thus, this topic appropriate for this forum.
    You are confused. A Classical symphony can only be composed by a human being. This is a science project with no artistic value.

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    Senior Member Livly_Station's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAntone View Post
    You are confused. A Classical symphony can only be composed by a human being. This is a science project with no artistic value.
    I disagree.

    And, as I said, this discussion itself is a thing.

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