View Poll Results: Do you like Alma Deutscher's music?

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  • I like Alma Deutscher's music

    15 46.88%
  • I don't like Alma Deutscher's music

    17 53.13%
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Thread: Alma doesn't deserve more love.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissident View Post
    Now now mmsbls. You know that one would be locked in a New York minute and the one who posted it would be banished to the community area for a couple of months.
    If I thought this poll were actually about liking the person, Deutscher, I think we would delete it. If I thought the poll about Stockhausen were actually about whether he was not liked as a person, we would also probably delete it.

  2. #92
    Senior Member dissident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    ... And may give the creator of the thread an infraction.
    Yep, most definitely. Some "trolls" are more equal than others, apparently.

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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    If I thought this poll were actually about liking the person, Deutscher, I think we would delete it. If I thought the poll about Stockhausen were actually about whether he was not liked as a person, we would also probably delete it.
    Then why not edit this poll to state music and not the person?

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  6. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    Then why not edit this poll to state music and not the person?
    The responses make it clear people believe the poll is asking about her music.

    But can we get back to the thread itself. What do people think of Deutscher's music?
    Last edited by mmsbls; Sep-26-2021 at 17:31.

  7. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    Then why not edit this poll to state music and not the person?
    Please let's not argue about such stupid details!

  8. #96
    Senior Member science's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsbls View Post
    The responses make it clear people believe the poll is asking about her music.

    But can we get back to the thread itself. What do people think of Deutscher's music?
    I'm not sure we can separate those things so well.

    I'm not very enthusiastic about the music she's made so far, at least not what I've heard of it. It's okay. But hey, she's a child.

    It seems to me that she's kind of sheltered. Maybe that's right, since she's a child. But she's not forming her ideas from conversations with other contemporary composers. I hope for her sake that she gets to have a somewhat normal high school and college experience, with a little bit of rebellion, pushing the boundaries the adults in her world have set for her, getting out in the world and learning about things her parents and home community haven't been telling her, whatever those things are. Finding out who she wants to be and becoming an adult, able to converse meaningfully and valuably with adults, which she isn't right now, and that's normal and acceptable because she's a child.

    Well, she's also a pawn in some cultural struggle that she probably doesn't understand yet, but a time will come when she takes control of herself and we'll see what happens then.

    I hope I live a few more decades just in case her story takes any really interesting turns. I just find it unlikely that her musical tastes and ideas will be the same when she's 35 or 55 as when she's 15.
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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  10. #97
    Senior Member JTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by science View Post
    I'm not sure we can separate those things so well.

    I'm not very enthusiastic about the music she's made so far, at least not what I've heard of it. It's okay. But hey, she's a child.

    It seems to me that she's kind of sheltered. Maybe that's right, since she's a child. But she's not forming her ideas from conversations with other contemporary composers. I hope for her sake that she gets to have a somewhat normal high school and college experience, with a little bit of rebellion, pushing the boundaries the adults in her world have set for her, getting out in the world and learning about things her parents and home community haven't been telling her, whatever those things are. Finding out who she wants to be and becoming an adult, able to converse meaningfully and valuably with adults, which she isn't right now, and that's normal and acceptable because she's a child.

    Well, she's also a pawn in some cultural struggle that she probably doesn't understand yet, but a time will come when she takes control of herself and we'll see what happens then.

    I hope I live a few more decades just in case her story takes any really interesting turns. I just find it unlikely that her musical tastes and ideas will be the same when she's 35 or 55 as when she's 15.
    Interesting what you say and comparing her with Mozart at the same age, who of course was, together with his sister, a pawn in the game too - that of making money for his father. The painful separation of father and son is well described in Swafford’s biography. Leopold can only be described as a completely self-obsessed manipulator. Be interesting to see what happens in the case of this kid
    Last edited by JTS; Sep-28-2021 at 10:27.

  11. #98
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by science View Post
    I teach kids her age. The idea of adults voting on whether we like a child her age is bizarre. How far off is the day when we have a poll on whether Stockhausen is a poopy face?
    Thank you science. I'm not going to vote on whether I like a young girl I don't know. What I think Alma deserves — or rather, deserved — was not to be thrust into an untenable, no win situation in the public eye as a short shelf-life cash cow and messiah for the easy-listening crowd.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Sep-28-2021 at 13:47.

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    — Jonathan Swift

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  13. #99
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackRance View Post
    Please let's not argue about such stupid details!
    I should say that getting the question right - assuming it's worth asking and answering - is not a stupid detail, but you're right that it doesn't need to be argued about: it can simply be corrected.

  14. #100
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    I fail to see why anybody would not understand that this is about her music, but as it has now been brought up repeatedly, I changed the wording accordingly.

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  16. #101
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    We live in an era of the fetishization of the child; Greta Thunberg and Alma Deutscher. There are others. It's the fetishization which interests me, not the child.
    Last edited by Hunt Stromberg; Sep-28-2021 at 22:12.

  17. #102
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTS View Post
    Leopold can only be described as a completely self-obsessed manipulator.
    What's the evidence for that? It's not like he was being greedy; he was also successful and financially stable as a composer himself (and the author of a famous book on violin playing), but "gave up composing" around the early 1760s for his son's education.
    “Leopold Mozart was a talented musician who well understood his craft as a composer....many of his church pieces, of which we find masses, litanies, offertories and many others in considerable number are among the best that he wrote.” -Ernst Fritz Schmid
    "Of the manuscript compositions by Herr Mozart which have become known, numerous contrapuntal and other church pieces are especially noteworthy." http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img..._C.pdf#page=42
    Last edited by hammeredklavier; Sep-29-2021 at 13:26.

  18. #103
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTS View Post
    Totally agree with you. I am in total agreement that anyone should be able to compose what they like, even the people who compose most of the dreadful stuff that passes for music today. The only qualification I will put on it is that other people should not be required to listen to it.
    How could they possibly be required to listen to it? How could they possibly be required to learn about the logical development and history of music, and the continuing developments in modern music?

    Like so many difficult subjects today many people don't have the 'interest' or the attention span to learn about it, And I guess they want other people to know about it. At least that is how it is with science subjects on the Internet. When I was growing up we would've been so embarrassed to broadcast to everybody our ignorance about science subjects, but today it's like a badge of pride. Cosmology, evolution, particle physics, global warming, these are glaring examples. I guess the resentfulness has been with us for 500 years.
    BUT the voting public needs to be engaged for the future of humanity.
    Last edited by Luchesi; Sep-29-2021 at 16:51.
    Albert Einstein, "I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.

  19. #104
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    I’m surprised at how much criticism there is on how Alma’s talent has been handled. She is a prodigy-level, precocious, headstrong young girl and seems to know what she wants and when she wants it. I don’t think the parents have much of a choice. She has indicated that she does not want some of the traditional training and I think she puts her foot down on that score.

    As she is getting older she is gaining more control over her career. Ever heard of emancipation of a minor? The parents can try to take control or go along with it. Sure there’s a financial incentive, but I don’t think it is the primary reason for where this talent is taking her. Does anyone here have any proof that it is?
    Last edited by DaveM; Sep-29-2021 at 17:31.

  20. #105
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Just because someone can confidently declare who they are, what they want and what their opinions are, doesn't mean that those things haven't been acquired from other people, or that they reflect ideas and opinions in perpetuity. I have no problem with AD herself, or her music: what the 17 year old thinks now may well change over the years.

    For me, the issue is what others claim about her and her music.

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