Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55

Thread: Are The Beatles Avant-Garde?

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    It does make a huge difference in the sound of the music and record production. But that entire era during the late 60s and early 70s was ripe for creative artists to be on the cutting edge due to the rapid development of technology that didn't exist prior to that time. The combination of a newly emerging pop/rock genre of self contained bands writing their own material combined with the production techniques made for a very interesting time in popular music. And maybe it has something to do with the fact that I grew up during those years but many of the records produced during that era sound better to my ears 50 years later that the slick pop and hair metal of the 80s digital age. So much of the music that was wildly popular in the 80s has been forgotten. But those records from 10-15 years earlier are still being listened to and discovered by multiple generations.
    you know, this is weird because an argument I had seen earlier about the Beatles influence had the completely different argument- mainly what sounds more like the music popular now- Sgt. Peppers, or Kraftwerk's "Trans Europe Express"?

  2. #32
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    1,859
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    you know, this is weird because an argument I had seen earlier about the Beatles influence had the completely different argument- mainly what sounds more like the music popular now- Sgt. Peppers, or Kraftwerk's "Trans Europe Express"?
    Kraftwerk's "Trans Europe Express"

    1977

    There's room for more than just one band in the Greatest Influencers of All Time basket. Kraftwerk DID have a minor influence on music, but face it, they were a one-trick pony.

    Were they "Avant garde"? Well, I guess, maybe, but they found their niche and pretty much stayed there. The band had very little in the way of a musical evolution as they went on. That would anti-avant garde.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    say what you want about Kraftwerk but calling them a "minor" influence on music is, and I really dislike pulling this word out, objectively wrong.

  4. #34
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Kraftwerk's "Trans Europe Express"

    1977

    There's room for more than just one band in the Greatest Influencers of All Time basket. Kraftwerk DID have a minor influence on music, but face it, they were a one-trick pony.

    Were they "Avant garde"? Well, I guess, maybe, but they found their niche and pretty much stayed there. The band had very little in the way of a musical evolution as they went on. That would anti-avant garde.
    This complete dis-understanding of Kraftwerk is all too common and makes me want to weep …..
    “The special mark of the modern world is not that it is sceptical, but that it is dogmatic without knowing it”

    G.K. Chesterton

  5. #35
    Senior Member pianozach's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    1,859
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    say what you want about Kraftwerk but calling them a "minor" influence on music is, and I really dislike pulling this word out, objectively wrong.
    Minor influence.

    They are imitation Philip Glass distilled for a pop music audience. Kraftwerk is nothing more than a reflection of the influence of Glass on Popular Music.

    I mean, they're OK for an occasional listen. They don't suck.

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Kraftwerk sound absolutely nothing like Philip Glass. Steve Reich tape music, maybe. They, and Yellow Magic Orchestra were foundational to the generation of electro, probably the most important proto-hip-hop genre which begat an enormous percentage of popular music today.


    If you don't like the music, that's fine but this is close to arguing that James Brown or Chuck Berry were "minor influences" on music.

  7. #37
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    10,302
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The sad thing about Kraftwerk is that they influenced so many of those insipid synth-poop bands which dominated the singles charts during the 80s. Ditto Van Halen, who inadvertently spawned millions of sound-alike Hair Metal fretw*nkers.
    Last edited by elgars ghost; Oct-13-2021 at 22:35.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

  8. #38
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    Minor influence.

    They are imitation Philip Glass distilled for a pop music audience. Kraftwerk is nothing more than a reflection of the influence of Glass on Popular Music.

    I mean, they're OK for an occasional listen. They don't suck.
    Stick to what you know.
    “The special mark of the modern world is not that it is sceptical, but that it is dogmatic without knowing it”

    G.K. Chesterton

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    The sad thing about Kraftwerk is that they influenced so many of those insipid synth-poop bands which dominated the singles charts during the 80s. Ditto Van Halen, who inadvertently spawned millions of sound-alike Hair Metal fretw*nkers.
    hey, some of that was good. I'd listen to New Order or Depeche Mode any day of the week.

  10. #40
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    hey, some of that was good. I'd listen to New Order or Depeche Mode any day of the week.
    Me too. Brilliant music, and what an amazing influence Kraftwerk were (are).
    “The special mark of the modern world is not that it is sceptical, but that it is dogmatic without knowing it”

    G.K. Chesterton

  11. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    1,084
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    well, the real line these days is pointing out that Yellow Magic Orchestra did much of the same stuff but had the misfortune of being Japanese rather than European. but that's the deal with "influence" - so much of it doesn't involve pure genius but artists being in the right place at the right time to bring a certain synthesis of ideas into the mainstream.


    also I think I would *generally* be OK calling Krautrock "avant-garde" or at the very least "avant-pop". It was certainly on the fringe of what average popular musicians were producing in the 1970s.
    Last edited by fbjim; Oct-13-2021 at 22:45.

  12. #42
    Senior Member eljr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,759
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbebleu View Post
    No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    It really is this simple.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    Voltaire

  13. #43
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    10,302
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fbjim View Post
    hey, some of that was good. I'd listen to New Order or Depeche Mode any day of the week.
    It wasn't those I had specifically in mind. I'm not a fan of either but I wouldn't deny that both bands had depth, as did Soft Cell (whom I did like). I was thinking of Blancmange, Dare-era Human League, Bronski Beat etc. I was probably wrong about Kraftwerk influencing them all - disco no doubt played a part as much as anything. I humbly retract (but I still meant what I said about Van Halen, though...).
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

  14. #44
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,999
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Human League and Bronski Beat were stellar!!!!!!!!!!
    “The special mark of the modern world is not that it is sceptical, but that it is dogmatic without knowing it”

    G.K. Chesterton

  15. #45
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Worcestershire, England
    Posts
    10,302
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryPenfold View Post
    Human League and Bronski Beat were stellar!!!!!!!!!!
    Hey, whatever butters your parsnips, Henry. I suppose my liking for Soft Cell seems irrational when sat next to the antipathy I have for those others I mentioned. Maybe Soft Cell amounted to a guilty pleasure or something. And I liked Tubeway Army/Gary Numan bet. 78-82 (but they/he were more Bowie and early Ultravox than Kraftwerk, probably).
    Last edited by elgars ghost; Oct-13-2021 at 23:41.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

    ὃν οἱ θεοὶ φιλοῦσιν ἀποθνῄσκει νέος [Those whom the gods love die young] - Menander

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •