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Thread: Words you dislike

  1. #151
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianozach View Post
    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Tell me, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?
    [CHORUS OF PIRATES]
    Oh, dash it all!

    [PIRATE KING]
    Here we are again!

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?

    [PIRATE KING]
    Often!

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Yes, orphan. Have you ever known what it is to be one?

    [PIRATE KING]
    I say, often.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL, PIRATE KING, CHORUS OF PIRATES]
    Often, often, often.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    I don’t think we quite understand one another. I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan, and you say “orphan”. As I understand you, you are merely repeating the word “orphan” to show that you understand me.

    [PIRATE KING]
    I didn’t repeat the word often.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Pardon me, you did indeed.

    [PIRATE KING]
    I only repeated it once.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    True, but you repeated it.

    [PIRATE KING]
    But not often.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Stop! I think I see where we are getting confused. When you said “orphan”, did you mean “orphan” – a person who has lost his parents, or “often”, frequently?

    [PIRATE KING]
    Ah! I beg pardon – I see what you mean – frequently.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Ah! you said "often", frequently.

    [PIRATE KING]
    No, only once.

    [MAJOR-GENERAL]
    Exactly – you said “often”, frequently, only once.
    I am getting from this that often, pronounced without sounding the "t" maybe sounds like orphan. Or is it that the "t" is an orphan since it is not sounded out?
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  2. #152
    Senior Member Pat Fairlea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    Oh how it bugs me when people pronounce the "t" in "often."
    Really? Yet there it is, a whole 't', launching the 2nd syllable. What's the problem?

    Put it another way, how do you prefer to hear 'after' pronounced?

  3. #153
    Senior Member Open Book's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Fairlea View Post
    Really? Yet there it is, a whole 't', launching the 2nd syllable. What's the problem?

    Put it another way, how do you prefer to hear 'after' pronounced?
    Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.
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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Book View Post
    Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.
    This Canadian says something in between: of-den with the "d" not prominent and a slight raise in pitch on the 2nd syllable.

    Never thought about this before.
    Last edited by Roger Knox; Yesterday at 20:04.

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  7. #155
    Senior Member HenryPenfold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Book View Post
    Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.
    British people don't (shouldn't) pronounce the 't' in often. Am I missing something, here?
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  8. #156
    Senior Member Baron Scarpia's Avatar
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    Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.
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  9. #157
    Senior Member Dan Ante's Avatar
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    I have always pronounced the t in often.
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  10. #158
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Scarpia View Post
    Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.
    Those pesky dictionaries. Always spoiling things for us.
    “The media’s the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent look guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power. Because they control the mind of the masses.”
    --Malcolm X

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  12. #159
    Senior Member Forster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Scarpia View Post
    Websters Dictionary cites pronunciation with 't' sound as primary, and without 't' as secondary pronunciation. According to them pronunciation with 't' sound is preferred.
    Oxford (UK Dictionary) has silent 't' followed by voiced 't'. Oxford (US Dictionary) has voiced 't'.

    I've now thought about this so much that I can't recall how how I say it. I expect both ways, depending on the context I put it in.

    As for how it 'should' be said, we all know that whether we like it or not, language is a living thing, evolving with or against our preferences all the time.

    Having said that, I am appalled at having discovered that the 'flapped t' is sanctioned as a unique sound in the US dictionary found in 'butter' - pronounced 'budder'!

    US pronunciations are transcribed in two ways, in traditional respelling (as seen in the New Oxford American Dictionary) and using symbols of the IPA.

    In both systems, the letters b, d, f, h, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, and z have their usual English values. In IPA, d is also used to represent a ‘flapped t’ as in butter.
    https://www.lexico.com/grammar/key-to-pronunciation

    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    I am getting from this that often, pronounced without sounding the "t" maybe sounds like orphan. Or is it that the "t" is an orphan since it is not sounded out?
    It's also about the 'posh' way of saying the 'o' as 'or' as in "Red Sox lorst again this week."

    Quote Originally Posted by Open Book View Post
    Americans don't pronounce the t in "often". If they do it can be considered pretentious, as if they are imitating British people.
    I'm reminded of Robert Downey Jnr's awful Brit accent in the Sherlock Holmes movies. Give me Dick Van Dyke's Cheeky Cockney any day.

    I think one of the differences I've heard between US and UK pronounciation is that our short and modified vowels are shorter than yours. Take 'ghastly', which we would say 'ghahstly' and a US might say 'ghairstly'. American actors who can master that can pass themselves off as English quite well.
    Last edited by Forster; Today at 08:37.

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