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Thread: Beethoven

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    Member vivaciouswagnerian's Avatar
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    Default Beethoven

    Does anyone have any opinions of some of Beethoven's Masses? I'm currently listening to the Missa Solemnes and his use of soloists is certainly not uncommon but he does it so elegantly that you can't tell the choir stopped singing because it is so powerful. Let me know what ya'll think and if any of his other masses exhibit similar technique.
    Last edited by vivaciouswagnerian; Jul-13-2006 at 23:11.
    "Don't bother to look; I've composed all this already"
    -Gustav Mahler to Bruno Walter, who had stopped to admire mountain scenery in rural Austria

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    *Beethoven

    Yes I've downloaded Missa Solemnis recently and I think it's pretty good. I haven't looked into anyhting else.

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    Member vivaciouswagnerian's Avatar
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    Default BeetHoven

    Forgive me, it was 5 in the morning, lol.
    "Don't bother to look; I've composed all this already"
    -Gustav Mahler to Bruno Walter, who had stopped to admire mountain scenery in rural Austria

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    Junior Member Weltschmerz's Avatar
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    If you like the Beethoven choral music, listen to Bruckner's - probably the most genuine yet innovatinve Catholic choral music composer of the Romantic era.
    "When all hopes of recognition or honor have faded into distant memory, when purity of heart meets sorrow of mind, when all the world seems to walk in blindness, and yet a man works without wearying for that which he loves...only in this moment is passion truly understood." - Franz Schubert, 1827

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    Beethoven: Missa Solemnis. My version is Klemperer. I don't have any other Beethoven Masses. This Mass is considered his great work in this area.

    Other fairly similar choral works:

    • Bach's Mass In B Minor. It's very long. The best version by far is John Eliot Gardner.
    • Haydn Mass No 11
    • Mozart Requiem
    • Schubert Mass 6 in E Maj, D 950 (very conventional Mass, beautiful)
    • Schumann Mass Op 147
    • Verdi's Requiem
    • Brahms German Requiem (not a Mass)
    • Faure's Requiem (not a Mass)

    In many ways I like the Schumann and Brahms pieces best. My version of the Brahms Requiem is Klemperer. There are many but this is the best. I just love the Romantic period flavour of these two pieces. They repay repeated listening.


    Topaz
    Last edited by Topaz; Oct-26-2006 at 22:09.

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    Senior Member 4/4player's Avatar
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    I am a fan of Beethoven's Symphonies....Thought I have never heard of his "Missa Solemis"...
    Im going to buy a cd recording of this piece soon...so..Care to give me a somewhat
    (p)review of this piece?=) Thanks!

    4/4player
    " 'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
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    'Nooooooooooo!' [Dragged down into Hell]
    - Act two: Finale of Mozart's "Don Giovanni"

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    Missa Solemnis: Klemperer on EMI Classics. Watch out for the Benedictus. It will blow your socks off.

    Think Beethoven: think Furtwangler, Klemperer, Kleiber, HVK, Abbado.

    Isn't it about time you got moving into Brahms? Just wait for the "composer of the week", coming soon. I hope you have plenty of spare cash.


    Topaz

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    Senior Member 4/4player's Avatar
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    LOL, Topaz!

    I hope I will enjoy the cd when I buy it..
    Yes, I SHOULD be moving to Brahms(Since he's your favorite composer!=P)...Though I don't know what pieces to start off with,lol..any suggestions?=) Thanks!

    4/4player
    " 'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Penitence!'
    'No!'
    'Yes!'
    'Nooooooooooo!' [Dragged down into Hell]
    - Act two: Finale of Mozart's "Don Giovanni"

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    Senior Member StlukesguildOhio's Avatar
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    If you're coming to Brahms from beethoven the obvious choice is Beethoven's 10th... oops, I mean Brahm's 1st Symphony. Coming from Missa Solemnis? The German Requiem is quite lovely (Gardiner or Klemperer)

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    You can find lots of Beethoven's works at http://www.naxos.com/composerinfo/79.htm. You can also get streaming
    Life of Mozart

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    Senior Member Hexameron's Avatar
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    classiko - do you think you can offer any further opinions without referencing the Naxos website? You're coming off as a phony bot, promoting the Naxos website even in the Mozart Controversy thread.

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    classiko is obviously only interested in promoting Naxos.com. I'm surprised such a reputable outfit is allowing this sort of thing. I'm afraid adverts like this have completely the opposite efect on me; I will now go out of my way to avoid buying anything from Naxos; do you get get that classiko?

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    Senior Member Kurkikohtaus's Avatar
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    I almost clicked the link before realizing the horror to which I would succumb.

    I hadn't ever heard Missa Solemnis well into my university days. I was first exposed to it during the opening funeral scene from the movie Immortal Beloved, it is the opening Kyrie that is heard there. I like the piece very much, but I respect it even more, if you can accept that distinction.

    It is very interesting how very different the choral writing is from the finale of the 9th symphony.



    ____________________________________
    ... perhaps the title of this thread can be changed to "Beethoven Masses"?

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    A Missa Solemnis is the poshest version of sung Mass (missa cantata) in the everyday R.C. liturgy. It's one up from ordinary missa cantata, but not as "high" as a Pontifical High Mass. None of these is normally used for requiem purposes.

    Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is probably the best, or at least I would argue so. Anything that Beethoven put his mind to usually trumped all, and here was no exception. I understand he spent a lot of time getting it right.

    Bach's Mass in B Minor is a long sprawling piece, good in parts, but seems to have nothing to with any kind of mass I know (and it's far too long). I can't relate to it at all.

    Mozart's Mass in C Minor (K 427 written 1782) is of course "great" not just in name but in quality; in fact it's superb. I wonder what Robert Newman may have to say about this?

    Franz Schubert also wrote some gorgeous masses. Mass 2 is a notable early one he wrote when he was only 18. This Mass was a staple of the R.C. Church for a long while in the 19th C. His Mass 5 is the equivalent of a Missa Solemnis. His last Mass - Mass 6, written in the year of his death, 1828 - is magnificent. I think I prefer it to most others.

    The thing about Schubert's masses is that they sound the "biz" in the sense that you can imagine them actually being used routinely as such, unlike many of the glitzy things written by several other composers, before and after. He gets exactly right the required tone/tempo for each part of the Mass, clearly because he knew what was required.

    One curious feature about Schubert's masses is that, for some peculiar reason, he left out a few key words in the Credo, which used to upset the Church authorities a bit, but because they generally loved him so much he was forgiven for this transgression (sin?).
    Last edited by Topaz; Jan-27-2007 at 13:50.

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    Senior Member Kurkikohtaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
    Bach's Mass in B Minor is a long sprawling piece, good in parts, but seems to have nothing to with any kind of mass I know (and it's far too long). I can't relate to it at all.
    If anyone else is wondering why the B Minor mass is what it is, it is so long and varied because Bach wrote it as an "audition piece" for a job, sorry, can't remember which one and I'm too lazy to fire up Wikipedia right now.

    In it, he tried to demonstrate every single style possible, to show off his technical compositional prowess.

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