hello.i am newbie here and it's my first thread.i am looking for a good version of mahler sym no.1.some of my friends suggest the kubelik's in audite and kegel's in berlin classic.but i have not heard both before.waiting for some introduction of those 2 cds.
uiojkl
I would choose Boulez's recording with the Chicago Symphony. It's got everything one would want in this piece: transparent textures, powerful brass, wonderful phrasing, and an end that brings the house down.
I don't know either of the two recordings you've mentioned, but I'm sure they're very different from Boulez's. Not necessary bad, either. I'm just recommending what is probably a very different interpretation from either.
I don't know either of the two recordings you've mentioned, but I'm sure they're very different from Boulez's. Not necessary bad, either. I'm just recommending what is probably a very different interpretation from either.
G
I have to disagree on Solti. I don't like his approach to Mahler. The Kubelik recording on Audite is an excellent one. I highly recommend it. Other than that one, Bernstein with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra is also a great one.
I haven't heard Boulez. I only have his new recording of the 2nd, which is nice, but not one of my favorites. I also have a recording by Michael Tilson Thomas with the San Francisco Symphony, which is nice, and has a great recorded sound, but not a favorite. Go with Kubelik. The sound is great, as is the performance.
I haven't heard Boulez. I only have his new recording of the 2nd, which is nice, but not one of my favorites. I also have a recording by Michael Tilson Thomas with the San Francisco Symphony, which is nice, and has a great recorded sound, but not a favorite. Go with Kubelik. The sound is great, as is the performance.
Boulez was the first Mahler 1 I've ever heard. DrMike, I haven't heard his recording of the 2nd, but from what I've read/heard about it, his Mahler 1 is exactly the opposite, emotionally. The tempi are perfectly judged, the themes in the first movement having the appropriate swagger and charm, the second movement being the only controversial spot (swift tempo), but perfectly balanced by the very slow and wonderfully phrased third movement. The vulgarities in the movement (klezmer band, etc.) aren't really brought out, but I very much like it that way.
The fourth movement is the best recording of that movement I've ever heard, bar none, and that goes entirely to the Chicago brass section, who cover themselves with glory, first at its sudden beginning, then at the very end, which has tremendous heft due to Boulez not driving the music forward like some conductors do.
I get the feeling that Boulez's is the clear best Mahler 1 I've heard. Just throwing that out there. I've never cared for any of Solti's Mahler I've heard, and the only Kubelik I've heard (the 8th) was quite unimpressive to me.
As long as you're happy with what you get, though--that's the main concern.
The fourth movement is the best recording of that movement I've ever heard, bar none, and that goes entirely to the Chicago brass section, who cover themselves with glory, first at its sudden beginning, then at the very end, which has tremendous heft due to Boulez not driving the music forward like some conductors do.
I get the feeling that Boulez's is the clear best Mahler 1 I've heard. Just throwing that out there. I've never cared for any of Solti's Mahler I've heard, and the only Kubelik I've heard (the 8th) was quite unimpressive to me.
As long as you're happy with what you get, though--that's the main concern.
A good way to compare in GM I is to listen to the start of the 4th movement -
how is the orchestral playing and how detailed is the sound, what is the level
of commitment ...
I don´t have that many recordings of it - Bernstein on DG, Leinsdorf, Scherchen,
Tennstedt, and Ozawa on DG. Of these, Scherchen´s is the best as to reveal the
manic and avant-garde elements of the work, by exaggerating tempi etc. The sound is
better than most of Scherchens recordings, but not luxurious. Ozawa is the only
one to include the usually omitted "Blumine"-movement in the symphony, and by
comparing it to the others, I actually found it the best, intense as well as architecturally
structured in the ongoing events, and - surprisingly - better than Bernstein.
Leinsdorf was the least interesting and had poorer sound, but Tennstedts was also
quite good, the sound picture being an attraction in itself. As regards Kubelik and
Solti I haven´t heard them, but Solti tends to making a lot of noise but less organic
structuring of the events, often lacking melody. ThereforeI would instinctively prefer
Kubelik; he has made some very good GMs, for instance GM II, which I find one of
the best versions, and GM VII, which is unusually atmospheric in its nature-sounding
playing and nocturnal moods. But: Ozawa is good, even at budget price, Scherchen
and Tennstedt serious candidates as well.
how is the orchestral playing and how detailed is the sound, what is the level
of commitment ...
I don´t have that many recordings of it - Bernstein on DG, Leinsdorf, Scherchen,
Tennstedt, and Ozawa on DG. Of these, Scherchen´s is the best as to reveal the
manic and avant-garde elements of the work, by exaggerating tempi etc. The sound is
better than most of Scherchens recordings, but not luxurious. Ozawa is the only
one to include the usually omitted "Blumine"-movement in the symphony, and by
comparing it to the others, I actually found it the best, intense as well as architecturally
structured in the ongoing events, and - surprisingly - better than Bernstein.
Leinsdorf was the least interesting and had poorer sound, but Tennstedts was also
quite good, the sound picture being an attraction in itself. As regards Kubelik and
Solti I haven´t heard them, but Solti tends to making a lot of noise but less organic
structuring of the events, often lacking melody. ThereforeI would instinctively prefer
Kubelik; he has made some very good GMs, for instance GM II, which I find one of
the best versions, and GM VII, which is unusually atmospheric in its nature-sounding
playing and nocturnal moods. But: Ozawa is good, even at budget price, Scherchen
and Tennstedt serious candidates as well.
Just out of interest, you can listen to samples from both those versions on Amazon - granted they are only 30 sec clips from each movement, but it gives you an idea, at least of the quality of the recorded sound and the basic tempos that the conductor is using!.
Also both those recordings have the stamp of approval from the hep cats on Amazon (both Boulez and Solti have good reviews too btw) so you know they are versions that seasoned collectors like! - You may want to discount my post as I only listened to the clips (amusingly one of the first things you hear in the Kubelik live is someone coughing!
), I just like Mahler too and enjoy reading these threads! .
Also both those recordings have the stamp of approval from the hep cats on Amazon (both Boulez and Solti have good reviews too btw) so you know they are versions that seasoned collectors like! - You may want to discount my post as I only listened to the clips (amusingly one of the first things you hear in the Kubelik live is someone coughing!
), I just like Mahler too and enjoy reading these threads! .Mahler's First
These are the readings of Mahler's Titan that I recommend in order:
Zubin Mehta/ Israel Philharmonic ( with the Blumine movement).
Leonard Bernstein/New York & Amsterdam
Sir Georg Solti/London
Seiji Ozawa/Boston
Rafel Kubelik/Bavarian
Frank Brieff/New Haven
Horenstein/Wiener
I haven't heard Boulez with Chicago but Boulez is electric with this ensemble and I am sure the recording will be a cracker!
These are the readings of Mahler's Titan that I recommend in order:
Zubin Mehta/ Israel Philharmonic ( with the Blumine movement).
Leonard Bernstein/New York & Amsterdam
Sir Georg Solti/London
Seiji Ozawa/Boston
Rafel Kubelik/Bavarian
Frank Brieff/New Haven
Horenstein/Wiener
I haven't heard Boulez with Chicago but Boulez is electric with this ensemble and I am sure the recording will be a cracker!
G
I think the big take away message here is - there are many great recordings of the Mahler 1. Which one you prefer depends on what conducting style you like/type of recording.
Despite the occasional coughs, etc., I like live recordings. Kubelik's is a great one. But sample different ones (or see if you can find some at your local library to listen before buying).
Despite the occasional coughs, etc., I like live recordings. Kubelik's is a great one. But sample different ones (or see if you can find some at your local library to listen before buying).
I'm listening to Rafael Kubelik's version with the Orchestra Di Torino Della Radio Italiana right now on www.last.fm, a historical live recording probably from the '50s, and he is doing well, so my guess is that his live recording from November 1979 on Audite sounds good, too. If you want to listen to several performances before buying including a studio recording with Kubelik and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (coupled with Songs of a Wayfarer sung by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau), here is the search result for albums of Mahler's No. 1 on Last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/search?q=mahler+1&type=album
The covers with a play button signal available tracks, but only the albums with all four movements (or five with "Blumine") available are the real ones, the other are just falsely indicated by the database. By the way, free "on demand" listening on Last.fm unfortunately only works in the UK, US and DE. These are the direct links to both Kubelik albums with Mahler's first symphony on Last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/music/Orchestra+...estra+Di+Torino+Della+Radio+Italiana+%26+Rafael+Kubelik/Kubelik+Conducts+Mahler
http://www.last.fm/music/Symphonieo...ayerischen+Rundfunks+[Orchestra]/Mahler%3A+Symphony+No.1%3B+Songs+of+a+Wayfarer
http://www.last.fm/search?q=mahler+1&type=album
The covers with a play button signal available tracks, but only the albums with all four movements (or five with "Blumine") available are the real ones, the other are just falsely indicated by the database. By the way, free "on demand" listening on Last.fm unfortunately only works in the UK, US and DE. These are the direct links to both Kubelik albums with Mahler's first symphony on Last.fm:
http://www.last.fm/music/Orchestra+...estra+Di+Torino+Della+Radio+Italiana+%26+Rafael+Kubelik/Kubelik+Conducts+Mahler
http://www.last.fm/music/Symphonieo...ayerischen+Rundfunks+[Orchestra]/Mahler%3A+Symphony+No.1%3B+Songs+of+a+Wayfarer
G
World Violist:
I just might have to check out Boulez' M1 - it isn't my favorite of all his symphonies, so I haven't amassed as great a collection of this one, but I might have to delve a little deeper.
For anyone interested, there is a website where Tony Duggan gives his recommendations for recordings of Mahler's works. I have found it interesting. I don't always agree with his top picks, but I get an idea for how he feels of various directors, and can compare it to my tastes. So if he says that so and so's recording of a particular symphony is in the style of another conductor that I enjoy, I will try that one. It gives a good jumping off point for someone not as knowledgeable about what is out there. The website is:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html
I also like to read the reviews at Classics Today. I think David Hurwitz does most of the Mahler reviews there. Duggan prefers live recordings, but I don't think Hurwitz is as biased in that sense.
But the great thing about it all is just trying out all the different recordings and finding your own personal favorite. Mine has changed a couple times for the 2nd. Currently, for that one I am torn between Rattle/Birmingham and Klemperer/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.
I just might have to check out Boulez' M1 - it isn't my favorite of all his symphonies, so I haven't amassed as great a collection of this one, but I might have to delve a little deeper.
For anyone interested, there is a website where Tony Duggan gives his recommendations for recordings of Mahler's works. I have found it interesting. I don't always agree with his top picks, but I get an idea for how he feels of various directors, and can compare it to my tastes. So if he says that so and so's recording of a particular symphony is in the style of another conductor that I enjoy, I will try that one. It gives a good jumping off point for someone not as knowledgeable about what is out there. The website is:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/index.html
I also like to read the reviews at Classics Today. I think David Hurwitz does most of the Mahler reviews there. Duggan prefers live recordings, but I don't think Hurwitz is as biased in that sense.
But the great thing about it all is just trying out all the different recordings and finding your own personal favorite. Mine has changed a couple times for the 2nd. Currently, for that one I am torn between Rattle/Birmingham and Klemperer/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra.
Tony Duggan's thing is pretty good, but his comments on Levine's Mahler 3, while by no means untrue, are not reason to condemn it. And his comments about Solti's Mahler 8 are more or less irrelevant. A lot of talk on his little site goes to orchestral execution and color, and while that is relevant, it's nowhere near as relevant as the overall arch of the given performance... hence my greater preference for David Hurwitz's Mahler reviews. Even though I don't tend to read a whole lot of reviews of composers/conductors I'm familiar with, I find Hurwitz generally has a lot of good things to say.
I won the Solti recording, and I love it. I also own many of the Boulez/Mahler interpretations.
Mahler Symphony 1 - some thoughts
The problem I have with this symphony is its last bar: the orchestra have finished the trill and (at ff) have just two notes left to play but on many recordings it just sounds like a sneeze. Bernstein and the Concetgebouw (DG, recorded late 80s) is a rare recording that deals with the problem by allowing the sound engineers to raise the volume on the timpani so that the end sounds more like an explosion than a sneeze. Elsewhere in the symphony Bernstein works his magic, the difficult to balance opening bars, the Klesma music of the third movement, and the disturbing opening bars of the fourth movement are superb. Solti and Klubelik are great recordings but if I had to chose just one it would be Bernstein. Oddly, Bernstein's other recordings (NY late 60s, Wien mid 70s) does not deal with the ending in the same manner of the Amsterdam recording.
The problem I have with this symphony is its last bar: the orchestra have finished the trill and (at ff) have just two notes left to play but on many recordings it just sounds like a sneeze. Bernstein and the Concetgebouw (DG, recorded late 80s) is a rare recording that deals with the problem by allowing the sound engineers to raise the volume on the timpani so that the end sounds more like an explosion than a sneeze. Elsewhere in the symphony Bernstein works his magic, the difficult to balance opening bars, the Klesma music of the third movement, and the disturbing opening bars of the fourth movement are superb. Solti and Klubelik are great recordings but if I had to chose just one it would be Bernstein. Oddly, Bernstein's other recordings (NY late 60s, Wien mid 70s) does not deal with the ending in the same manner of the Amsterdam recording.
Recalling my recent listenings of No.1 posted on CLV3. I am now curious about the Kubelik Audite performance, but I have to go on with the Challenge and I am now 'suffering' the endless Mahler No.2 by Boulez (one of the few that includes Totenfeier).
Mahler Challenge Barbirolli vs Boulez vs Kubelik vs Tennstedt
E1
Mahler
Symphony No.1 in D minor 'Titan'
Cond. Pierre Boulez, CSO, DG (1999/2013 Re-Issue)
--
Mahler
Symphony No.1 in D 'Titan'
Cond. Rafael Kubelik, SOdBR, DG (1968/2015 Remastered Edition)
![Image]()
![Image]()
Semi-final 1: Boulez plays fine but Langsam is his weak spot. Kubelik squashes him from beginning to end.
Finalist: R. Kubelik
So from these recordings, I am not saying that Boulez and the CSO underperform, but Kubelik DG and Barbirolli are way superior. I do not know if this Kubelik is better than the Bernstein DG Amsterdam, but I would have no doubt to keep Barbirolli's recording as a standout conductor.Mahler
Symphony No.1
Cond. John Barbirolli, HO, JBS (1957/1999 issue)
--
Mahler
Symphony No.1
Cond. Klaus Tennstedt, LPO, WC (1978/1998 Re-Issue)
View attachment 88130![Image]()
Semi-final 2: Klaus Tennstedt does not have the strenght that would be demanded for this symphony. In almost every movement he is below his rivals. However, I reccomend everyone to listen to John Barbirolli's Mahler 1st. It was recorded in the first stereo years and the engineering sounds very odd, but his playing is sublime, unique compared to other interpretations. Really worth the listen.
Final result M1: Kubelik wins for performance and sound. Barbirolli is behind his toes. Boulez is ok and Tennstedt starts weak.
1st: Kubelik DG 1968 (4p)
2nd: Barbirolli JBS 1957 (3p)
3rd: Boulez DG 1999 (2p)
4th: Tennstedt EMI 1978 (1p)
It's an excellent version. Better than his studio First from his Mahler cycle. Up there with Walter, Honeck, Fischer, Horenstein, Leinsdorf, Bernstein and Nezet-Seguin. Walter's epic 1961 First, on Sony (coupled with a brilliant 2nd), still tops the lot for me. Wonderful performance and still sounds as fresh as a daisy for its age. Honeck's account is on par with it, tbh, but Walter's is one of the first I got, so I have a soft spot for it.
Like Vaneyes and Pugg I love Muti EMI. I would not know if the Toshiba remastering improves it a lot.
My favorite is Abbado CSO, quick energetic, slow enough in adagio. I also love Sinopoli PO, Horenstein LSO, Bernstein Concertgebouw also, adagio too fast in my opinion. Solti CSO great also. I found Kubelick to have a bit of a harsh sound or the orchestra was not as transparent as I would like even on the DG remastered version. I like Ozawa BSO.
I grew up on Solti LSO which is good. Walter Columbia also.
There are a lot of good ones.
Bill
My favorite is Abbado CSO, quick energetic, slow enough in adagio. I also love Sinopoli PO, Horenstein LSO, Bernstein Concertgebouw also, adagio too fast in my opinion. Solti CSO great also. I found Kubelick to have a bit of a harsh sound or the orchestra was not as transparent as I would like even on the DG remastered version. I like Ozawa BSO.
I grew up on Solti LSO which is good. Walter Columbia also.
There are a lot of good ones.
Bill
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