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Thread: Is Music the Creation of Divinity?

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    Member michael walsh's Avatar
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    Default Is Music the Creation of Divinity?

    Is Music the Creation of Divinity?

    Many great musicians truly believed that their pens, as they composed, were guided by a divine spirit. Beethoven typically refused to take the credit for his music. For those of a mystical frame of mind there is much to ponder on. How do you describe something you cannot see? How did Ludwig van Beethoven create the most beautiful orchestrations of his music whilst unable to hear it?

    Beethoven’s death, in common with several other great composers, is threaded with mystery. As the Grim Reaper embraced this shabbily dressed irascible genius there broke over the Viennese night the most violent and terrifying electrical storm. The city cowered as thunder and lightning split the heavens. Beethoven, lying semi-conscious on his bed, was heard to murmur, ‘I shall hear in heaven’. He raised his arm as though to salute the afterlife and departed. The storm immediately began to abate.

    His funeral cortege brought this great European city to a halt. Schools and businesses closed; life held its breath and upwards of 30,000 people lined the streets to pay homage. Among the throngs the great Franz Schubert who was to follow the great master to the grave just 12-months later.

    Nearly two-hundred years on and the renowned flautist James Galway is adamant that the edge to his virtuosity is sharpened by God’s intrusion. When discussing his ambitions Galway agreed that they were limited: “They are merely that I should leave good memories behind me; that people should feel when they recall my name, that in some odd inexplicable way, they have at sometime heard the voice of the Infinite through me.”

    LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN

    Ludwig van Beethoven was just twelve years old when his virtuosity inspired his kindly mentor, Christian Gottlob Neefe, to present the talented child to the Elector of Cologne, Maximilian Franz: “He is, I believe, touched with genius.”
    “Quite a word to use of one so young,’ said the Elector: ‘You must not let this go to your head, young man,’ he added looking directly at Ludwig.
    Ludwig spoke in a firm, clear voice: ‘Sir. I have a gift that people say comes from God. I believe that to be true.’

    "The Lord and I are on speaking terms, and our bickering most often gets penned onto a piece of parchment." – Beethoven.

    AMADEUS MOZART

    The tremendous storm that consumed Vienna at the time of Beethoven’s spirit readying to leave his form may be dismissed as coincidence. Yet a similar freak of Nature occurred as Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart’s hearse was being trundled to his final resting place: “The hearse, with the few mourners, then proceeded to St Mark’s churchyard, but before the burial place was reached a terrific storm of snow and rain burst overhead, and with one accord the mourners turned back, and left the hearse to proceed alone. And thus the master, of whom it was prophesied that he would cause all others (composers) to be forgotten … was left to be buried by the hands of strangers in a pauper’s grave, without even a stone to mark where he was laid.” - Francis Jameson Rowbotham.

    When a little older he (Beethoven) arrived in Vienna for the first time, he looked forward to meeting yet another great musician; Wolfgang Mozart. Music, he thought, the highest art, coming directly from God. How many men have such a calling? In Bonn one alone. In Vienna one alone. And now I will meet him. At last! - The Last Master. John Suchet.

    “When Mozart was inspired to write Idomeneo or The Magic Flute, he was in touch with God.” - James Galway, Flautist.

    FRANZ SCHUBERT

    Of Franz Schubert Beethoven surmised: "Truly, the spark of Divine genius resides in this Schubert". / “ .. the composer nearest to God”. - Artur Schnabel

    JOSEPH HAYDN

    "It seems as though God gave me a cheerful heart, so I'm sure He'll forgive me if I serve Him cheerfully."

    "Whenever I think of God I can only conceive of Him as a being infinitely great and infinitely good. This last quality of the divine nature inspires me with such confidence and joy that I could have written even a miserere in tempo allegro."

    GIACOMO PUCCINI

    "God touched me with his finger and said 'write for the theatre, mind you - only for the theatre'... and I've been faithful to this supreme command.”

    GEORGE FREDERIC HANDEL


    “A Lady being very musical, was invited by him (Handel) to a private Rehearsal of the Messiah, and being struck with the Exceeding dignity of expression in the Choruses, and other parts of ye oratorio so inimitably set to the sacred works, after the musick was over she asked him how it was possible for him, who understood the English Language but imperfectly, to enter so fully into the sublime spirit of the Words. His answer is I think a lesson to all composers, at least of Sacred Musick;
    "Madam, I thank God I have a little religion."

    On composing Messiah, Handel is said to have remarked (1741):"I did think I did see all Heaven before me and the great God Himself." On another occasion, Handel whilst writing the Messiah, when speaking to a servant at the hotel in which he was staying: “Once he had finished the hallelujah chorus he spoke to the servant, ‘The lord spoke to me and hath said ‘twas not I who wrote this but on accord of Him.’

    RICHARD WAGNER


    “I am being used as the instrument for something higher than my own warrants. I am in the hands of the Immortal Genius I serve for the span of my life and his intention that I complete only what I can achieve.”

    “An atheistic upbringing is fatal. No atheist has ever created anything of great and lasting value.” - Richard Wagner in conversation with Engelbert Humperdnck in 1880: quoted in Arthur M. Abell, ‘Talks with Great Composers’ (1955)

    CHARLES FRANCOIS GOUNOD

    “How do you think of those lovely melodies?” asked a female admirer of Charles Gounod: The master replied: “God, Madame, sends me down some of his angels and they whisper sweet melodies in my ear.” - James Harding, Gounod (1973).

    JOHANNES BRAHMS

    “I know several young composers who are atheists. I have read their scores, and I assure you, Joseph, that they are doomed to speedy oblivion, because they are utterly lacking in inspiration. Their works are purely cerebral. No atheist has ever been or ever will be a great composer.” - Johannes Brahms in conversation with the violinist Joseph Joachim (1831 – 1907). Quoted in Arthur M. Abell: Talks with Great Composers. (1955).

    DINU LIPATTI

    Half an hour before he died he (Dinu Lipatti) was listening to records of Beethoven’s F minor Quartet. To his wife he said: “You see, it is not enough to be a great composer. To write music like that you must be a chosen instrument of God.”

    Walter Legge, the impresario was later to remark of Dinu Lipatti: “By the same light we may say it is not enough to be a great pianist: To play as Lipatti played you must be a chosen instrument of God. God lent the world His chosen instrument whom we called Dini Lipatti for too brief a space.”

    ANTONIN DVORAK


    ‘Life was a very uncomplicated thing to him. Instead of turmoil or neuroticism or dark brooding, we encounter a simple and sincere piety, such as only the deeply religious man is capable of.’ - A writer’s observation of the Czech composer.

    JAMES GALWAY

    James Galway is an internationally acclaimed flautist. He says: “Nothing pleases me more today than when somebody says to me: ‘You know, Jimmy. You can hear God in your playing.’ It delights me to think that in some small way I am a link between God and whoever is listening.”

    “What I had to do instead, I decided, was to make sure I represented the composer properly to the world. Or to go and bit deeper, the composer’s inspiration, which obviously came from God.”
    AMALIA RODRIGUEZ, Iconic Portugues Fado Singer.

    “Even if he doesn’t exist, I believe in Him.”

    HERBERT VON KARAJAN


    When asked where did his talent come from? Herbert von Karajan, the formidable Austrian-German musician and conductor was equally forthright: “I was given special tools, special talents. I never had any doubts that my talents came from the Creator. My duty to Him is to exploit them to the fullest. My ambition is to make music as perfectly as possible and reach as many people as possible.”

    “You don’t need faith to believe in God, because there are plenty of signs available of His existence. Mozart wrote a symphony as a child. Heredity cannot account for this. There is only one explanation: the Creator chooses people as His instruments to produce some beauty in a world that is all too ugly. “

    MICHAELANGELI

    The renowned Italian Classical Pianist: "I'm nothing but a priest of god's music."

    ANTON BRUCKNER


    That Bruckner felt inspired by God is to state the obvious. In addition to the vocal religious works, he dedicated his 9th Symphony "To our Beloved God" (although it's said that he modestly appended 'if He'll accept it'). Anton Bruckner did make it clear that he also considered his view of the Day of Judgement as part of his perspective. Another of his quotes: "When God calls me to Him and asks me: 'Where is the talent which I have given you?' Then shall I hold out the rolled-up manuscript of my Te Deum and I know He will be a compassionate judge."

    "They want me to write differently. Certainly I could, but I must not. God has chosen me from thousands and given me, of all people, this talent. It is to Him that I must give account. How then would I stand there before Almighty God, if I followed the others and not Him?" – Anton Bruckner.

    The debate over whether these great men of music were swayed by their religious convictions or by a deity will be hotly debated without of course anyone knowing the intriguing answer. Until then perhaps it is just best to ponder on that which isn’t as yet ours to know. ©

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    Senior Member Lukecash12's Avatar
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    I think this dead horse has been beaten enough, my friend.
    There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance.
    Nahj ul-Balāgha by Ali bin Abu-Talib

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    Senior Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Whether or not somebody thought their composing was guided by something supernatural, it's still not true. Or at least, there is no evidence to support their claim. And therefore such a claim is outrageous.

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    I'm still frustrated that you paid no attention to my comments on the Brahms quotation! He may have been condemning his antiquated notion of what an 'atheist' is, but this certainly did not mean that he was endorsing theism!

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    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    I get my inspiration from the devil. He comes to me in dreams and plays me awesome melodies on a guitar made from Hitler's skeleton. I don't know where I'd be as a composer without the devil. I owe everything to him. Thank you. Thank you.
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

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    Senior Member Johnny's Avatar
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    The bible is so mundane.

    The Lord Of The Rings is much better!

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    Member michael walsh's Avatar
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    It's only an article, already doing the world media. The boards editor did ask for articles and I obliged. As long as it makes people think; it evidently does so. It certainly aroused some pretty strong emotions.

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    DrMike
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    And while I am not unsympathetic to this notion, some of these anecdotes, particularly on the deaths of Beethoven and Mozart, seem a bit to melodramatic, and I would not be surprised in the least to find that they have been greatly embellished. For some strange reason, we don't consider the great people throughout history to be able to stand on their own merits, so we tend to mythologize them, as if fantastical stories somehow increase their stature. To me, there is greater evidence for divine inspiration in Beethoven in his 9th symphony than in whatever meteorological phenomena were present at his passing. I don't need an incredible story to tell me more than what his own creations tell me.

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    DrMike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Whether or not somebody thought their composing was guided by something supernatural, it's still not true. Or at least, there is no evidence to support their claim. And therefore such a claim is outrageous.
    "no evidence to support their claim" does not equal "not true." I would argue that there is no evidence to disprove the claim. If these quotes are indeed real, then what these people felt was on a personal level, and while that may not be convincing to you, it would be the height of arrogance to claim them untrue and outrageous.

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    As long as it makes people think;
    Come on, does it? There is nothing to think about - if one belives in God then he belives that everything that exists is his creation. If one doesn't belive in God then he doesn't belive that he created music or anything.

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    Member michael walsh's Avatar
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    The greatest classical Spanish guitarist of all time, Andres Segovia had said of (John) Williams:

    “A Prince of the Guitar has arrived in the musical world. God has laid a finger on his brow, and it will not be long before his name becomes a byword in England and abroad, thus contributing to the spiritual domain of his race.”

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    DrMike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    The bible is so mundane.

    The Lord Of The Rings is much better!
    Um, to quote the great Inigo Montoya (The Princess Bride): I do not think it [mundane] means what you think it means.

    Do you know the definition of mundane? Here are a few, just culled from www.dictionary.com:
    1. of or pertaining to this world or earth as contrasted with heaven; worldly; earthly: mundane affairs.
    2. common; ordinary; banal; unimaginative.
    3. of or pertaining to the world, universe, or earth.

    The bible is mundane? Really? It pertains only to this earth, and gives no though to heaven? It is common, ordinary, banal, and unimaginative? I would submit that people who don't in fact accept it as a divinely inspired book would call it the height of imagination.
    Whether or not you accept it as a divinely inspired book, it is widely regarded that much of it, if not all, is very skillfully written, rife with beautiful imagery, symbolism, and poetry.

    Tolkien himself would take issue with your comparison of his work with the bible. He was a devout Roman Catholic, and was instrumental in C. S. Lewis' conversion from atheism to Christianity.

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    AMALIA RODRIGUEZ, Iconic Portuguese Fado Singer.

    “Even if he doesn’t exist, I believe in Him.”

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    Senior Member Jeremy Marchant's Avatar
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    In a broadly Christian society, it's not surprising that a substantial proportion of its members would have Christian beliefs. You could have produced another list, citing all the famous bricklayers in Europe who also held religious views. In neither case does the fact that a lot of people believe something make it true.

    Time was, most people believed the earth is flat. Now, vanishingly few people do. What happened? If the earth really was flat in the old days when - and because - most people believed it was, did it suddenly change form a two dimensional object to a three dimensional one between then and now?

    Was a simple majority of people believing the world is round sufficient for it suddenly to pop into its new shape, or was a two thirds majority needed? Or maybe it gradually changed from two to three dimensions as the numbers of believers in roundness grew.

    Or perhaps it really was two dimensional when it was being perceived by someone who believed it was, but simultaneously three dimensional when perceived by someone else of the opposite faith - sorry, belief.

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    Senior Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael walsh View Post
    AMALIA RODRIGUEZ, Iconic Portuguese Fado Singer.

    “Even if he doesn’t exist, I believe in Him.”
    Says it all really.

    I was expecting the "you can't disprove it!" defence! Awesome! And the accusation of being arrogant for thinking it ludicrous somebody believes in some mythology! Somebody is going to play the "getting offended" card. I have a gut feeling of it!

    This is almost certainly a waste of time, but what the hell. You cannot possibly think the fact there is no way of disproving the existence of god, as a good reason for believing him to exist. First of all, you can say that about ALL religions that have ever been made up. Ancient ones that people have grown out of, and modern ones. They cannot all be true. Also, you can not disprove the claim that my left shoe is the reincarnation of Elvis. - Hardly a convincing reason to take the idea seriously.

    I'll probably leave it at that, because I struggle to think of anything more futile than trying to reason with people who choose to ignore reason.

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