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Thread: Bruckner

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    Senior Member linz's Avatar
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    Default Bruckner

    I resently learned that Bruckner wrote the 7th for Wagner after his death. It was extremely well received and established his reputation. At first I didn't care for Bruckner because I preferred quick and fiery music as apposed to methodical and slow. Eventually I realized that Bruckner was also very exciting. The develoment of opening theme in the first movement is very convincing as the brass brings its repetition great drama. The hovering string melody in the second movement and 'dooms dayish' theme of the third movement are also fantastic. Can anyone recommend a supreme recording of this work or symphony cycle outside of Eugene Jochum/Dresden.

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    Senior Member Kurkikohtaus's Avatar
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    I'm not much of a Karajan fan, but Karajan's Bruckner recordings with Berlin are well rounded and balanced without the extremes that some other conductors tend towards.

    One recording cycle that I cannot recommend are Celibidache's live recordings with the Munich Philharmonic. These were all the rage when they first appeard, because Celibidache made absolutely no recordings during his lifetime. After his death, his wife and son collaborated with the Munich Philharmonic and released dozens of live concert-archive recordings, the proceeds of which go to various children's charities.

    As noble as this is, the recordings are absolutely crazy. Celibidache was an extremely individual artist who's vision of music went far beyond what composers wrote. While this can be very exciting in a live concert hall, where as a listener you are experiencing far more than just sound, on a "sterile" recording it sounds absolutely ridiculous, distorted and almost amateur.

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    Senior Member linz's Avatar
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    I must agree completely, the conducter has become some kind of spectical revolving around themselves and need more often to stick with the purer beauty of what the composer meant, smaller orchestras generally stick to the music better then ones being lead by someone with an agenda i. e. (the famous conductor) Barenboim doesn't have this problem. "Poor Schoenberg lead classical music out into the desert where it still roams to this day!"

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    Senior Member Kurkikohtaus's Avatar
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    I wasn't necessarily implying that Celibidache was a bad conductor, or even a bad Bruckner conductor.

    My point was that his live performances, which many hail as fantastic, simply cannot translate onto a CD.

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    Senior Member linz's Avatar
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    I didn't say he was "bad" unless all interpretation "as I fermly believe" has no place in music, but this doesn't mean he was "bad", just "pompous" and many people suffer from that affliction. Stravinsky said the conductor should play the music exactly as the composer wrote it.

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    If you like the 7th you should also try the 4th and the 8th if you haven't already.

    My version of the 4th and 7th is HVK/BPO. My 8th is Maazel/BPO.

    I found a dedicated Bruckner website a few months ago (can't remember its name) and the consensus view was that HVK is the best Mahler interpretor. I'm afraid I'm no great expert on this matter, just passing on what I read.

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    Senior Member linz's Avatar
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    Mahler? Did you mean Bruckner? What I herd was that Karajan was dragged into Mahler because of the composers rise in popularity. But none-the-less Karajan's Mahler 5th and 6th have maid it to the 20th century remastered DG addition. I guess I herd wrong.

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    Linz

    Well spotted. I did mean Bruckner.

    I was actually listening to some Mahler at the time. That's my (pathetic) excuse for the slip-up. Thanks for pointing it out.

    I think (I'm not sure) the Bruckner site I was referring to was:

    http://www.geocities.com/immortalbruckner/main.html

    Having just looked at it again now, the recommendation concerning HVK seems to have been dropped. All the same, it gives some useful info on Bruckner and the best interpretators.



    Topaz
    Last edited by Topaz; Oct-26-2006 at 10:21.

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    Bruckner ? Marvellous. I love his 8th Symphony - to me, a tremendous work. And his Masses. To hear a symphony like Bruckner's 8th (especially if the orchestra is a large one) is one of the great experiences of concert going.

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    Default Bruckner's symphony no 7

    The version of Bruckner's symphony no 7 that I have bought is the one that I borrowed from the local library and I was so impressed with it that I didn't need to try any others. It is the one with Herbert von Karajan conducting the Vienna Philharmonic and it is Karajan's last ever recording. It is on the Deutsche Grammophon label.

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    Default Bruckner Symphony 6 Klemperer/ New Philharmonia

    This fabulous performance and recording from Kingsway Hall in London 1964 and remastered has it all .Air around the instruments , sound stage , forward more than back ., I have been listening using Passionato's excellent previews and my Grado 325i headphones .I havent heard a Bruckner 6 with more impact than this .Anyone got this disc or heard it ?

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    Assistant Administrator Chi_townPhilly's Avatar
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    No... I only have two Bruckner 6s- Solti-Chicago & Tinter-New Zealand. Your disc sounds interesting- Kingsway had a nice reputation... but I'm sure that recording there presented some occasional challenges [:adopts Annie Lennox parody-- "here comes the train again":].

    However, Since you brought up Klemperer/Bruckner, let me relate a Klemperer performance I have, dating from 30 years before the New Philharmonia platters- Bruckner 9 by the New York Philharmonic- Oct. 14, 1934 @ Carnegie Hall! I have four versions of Bruckner 9, and they're all great in their own way. One of the interesting things about the 1934 disc is that programming Bruckner in the original was considered really adventurous at that time...
    The hardest knife ill us'd doth lose his edge. Shakespeare- Sonnet 95

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    I have three Bruckner cycles:

    Jochum: Deutsche Grammophon
    Jochum: EMI
    Wand: RCA (Cologne Radio Symphony)

    I want the Karajan, but it's a little high right now, but maybe it's come down in time.

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    Assistant Administrator Chi_townPhilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTech82 View Post
    I want the Karajan, but it's a little high right now, but maybe it'll come down in time.
    I was tempted to get the "Karajan Symphony Edition" set from DG (virtually all late Haydn/Mozart symphonies, all Beethoven Symphonies & 6 overtures [cannily, they're the late 70s recordings and not the more widely disseminated early 60s cycle], and cycles from Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms (+ St. Anthony variations), Bruckner & Tchaikovsky. 38 discs... new for c. $90.00 @ the "South American River..."). In my collection, it would have only duplicated the Brahms (so I'd move the older "two-fer" to my wife's CD stack...) Maybe later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_town/Philly View Post
    I was tempted to get the "Karajan Symphony Edition" set from DG (virtually all late Haydn/Mozart symphonies, all Beethoven Symphonies & 6 overtures [cannily, they're the late 70s recordings and not the more widely disseminated early 60s cycle], and cycles from Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms (+ St. Anthony variations), Bruckner & Tchaikovsky. 38 discs... new for c. $90.00 @ the "South American River..."). In my collection, it would have only duplicated the Brahms (so I'd move the older "two-fer" to my wife's CD stack...) Maybe later...
    That's looks like an attractive set, though the problem I have with that set is it has not been remastered and I did some research on the Bruckner as well. It has not been remastered, so I believe I'll pass on it unless I can get it for a killer deal, then I'll maybe plunk down some money for it, but until then I don't think so.

    By the way, $90 is too much for that set. You can get from a seller right now on Amazon for $66. Why pay more for something when you can get it cheaper somewhere else?

    Anyway, if you have an Amazon account, then that's where you're going to find the best deals, especially on CDs.

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