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How do we bring back Classical Music for the Average Joe ?

34K views 345 replies 68 participants last post by  Luchesi 
#1 ·
I don't need anymore explaining. Classical Music as it stands right now is not popular with the average middle class Joe.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Classical music was NEVER popular with average middle class Joes.

Classical music has never been, is not now and will never be popular with 95% (if not 99%) of the music-listening population of any country/society.
 
#8 ·
With the easy access of music via electronics, the general short attention span of people, and the continual devaluing of western culture this won't be easy to do. But in earlier times, many more people were aware of classical than now:

Go back to mid-century New York. The Philharmonic regularly played concerts at Lewisohn Stadium to packed crowds of 8,000 people. The Goldman Band was wildly popular for playing concerts to the masses. Leonard Bernstein gave a famous Concert in the Park (Eroica and Rite of Spring) that 100,000 at least were there for.

In mid-20th c America there were only three TV and few radio networks. Their leaders had higher aspirations for the medium and sponsored their own orchestras of which Toscanini's was the most famous. With only three channels out there, people had much more limited listening and viewing choices - so why not watch a concert? Nowadays, with hundreds of choices classical music is utterly absent on TV in the US. Some orchestras are streaming, but they're still up so many other entertainment choices.

Saturday morning cartoons especially from Warner Bros used both popular and classical music. It influenced lot of people to check out music.

Over 100 years ago, before radio and TV and even records, if you wanted music you played it yourself. Learning piano was far, far more common than today and what did they play? Chopin, Rubinstein, Beethoven, Rachmaninoff...many people with first heard the great symphonies in piano 4-hand arrangements. I still remember growing up hearing grandma pounding out Strauss waltzes on her upright.

Universities used to require students take humanities courses - to introduce students to the great works of art and music to students. Those days are long gone. All replaced with music appreciation for ABBA, Michael Jackson, Radiohead...

But there's still hope: in Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, China and other parts of the Orient, classical music is highly valued and sought out.
 
#9 ·
But there's still hope: in Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, China and other parts of the Orient, classical music is highly valued and sought out.
I've seen statements like this a lot - but are there actual data available? Does a larger percentage of the population of these countries listen to classical music and/or go to concerts compared to say Europe and the USA?
 
#10 ·
When I was young (the 70s and 80s) classical music was certainly being marketed as accessible to everyone. My first proper introduction to classical music was through the widely advertised CD compilation "The Classic Experience" of 1988. Then there was the Three Tenors in 1990... The UK's first commercial radio station, Classic FM, launched in 1992 to much success and now has about 6 million listeners, which sounds impressive until you realise that means 90% of the country doesn't listen to it. Plus its playlist consists of only that portion of the classical repertoire that won't frighten off a general audience.

The average Joe is getting on just fine without classical music - and, realistically, vice versa.
 
#11 ·
When I was young (the 70s and 80s) classical music was certainly being marketed as accessible to everyone. My first proper introduction to classical music was through the widely advertised CD compilation "The Classic Experience" of 1988. Then there was the Three Tenors in 1990... The UK's first commercial radio station, Classic FM, launched in 1992 to much success and now has about 6 million listeners, which sounds impressive until you realise that means 90% of the country doesn't listen to it. Plus its playlist consists of only that portion of the classical repertoire that won't frighten off a general audience.

The average Joe is getting on just fine without classical music - and, realistically, vice versa.
Spot on.

(This is to get my post over 15 characters)
 
#15 · (Edited)
It seems like the best way is to tie it into something Joe can relate to. Nobody heard of Strauss' Zarathustra until Kubrick put it into 2001, and even less had heard of Pachelbel's Canon until the 1970s, culiminating in the movie Ordinary People. Then there was Bach's Cello Suite used in the TV show The West Wing.

My feeling about classical music is, most people would like it if they had a reason to hear it. For examples, back in the 1960s, hippies had no problem hearing Virgil Fox at the Filmore. I don't see why that couldn't happen again if the social influencers waved their hands.

Some enterprising person needs to notice how many 20-somethings have dogs and begin to market music for their pets. Apparently dogs become less stressed after listening to instrumental music.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Classical music is becoming a growing streaming market according to this Forbes article; reaching a share of 32%.

=> https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissamdaniels/2019/07/22/how-classical-music-is-becoming-the-next-emerging-streaming-market/?sh=797a479c2894

statistic =>
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This 2019 abc.net article is even more optimistic => "The study found that 35% of adults listened to classical music. Classical music was the fourth most popular music genre, with more fans than R&B or hip hop."
=> https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-and-watch/news/young-large-audience-for-classical-music/11418000
 
#22 · (Edited)
Classical music is becoming a growing streaming market according to this Forbes article; reaching a share of 32%.

=> https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissamdaniels/2019/07/22/how-classical-music-is-becoming-the-next-emerging-streaming-market/?sh=797a479c2894

statistic =>
View attachment 155439

This 2019 abc.net article is even more optimistic => "The study found that 35% of adults listened to classical music. Classical music was the fourth most popular music genre, with more fans than R&B or hip hop."
=> https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-and-watch/news/young-large-audience-for-classical-music/11418000
Streaming numbers can be misleading since listening to ten seconds of a track would count. Which is why data on purchasing patterns are a more reliable indicator of actual support. Also sites like Spotify have curated albums such as "Classical Music for Studying ... Reading ... When It's Raining", etc. that infuriate me when I'm searching for a composer's music but must be designed for the "Average Joe."
 
#24 ·
In the UK the BBC used to promote classical music quite actively e.g. Young Musician of the Year used to be on BBC1 (when there were only 3 channels to chose from). The ratings must have been 5 Million at least, maybe much more. Now it is on BBC4 where there is no risk of Joe Public bumping into it.
 
#29 ·
If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
 
#35 ·
We live in a Brave New World where the average Joe has been dumbed down. The problem is societal. If you want the average Joe to enjoy things like classical music average Joe needs an education. He is not getting it in public schools or learning from the slime oozing off his TV set. The average Joe is doped up, numbed and dumbed.

I find it hilarious how the so called 'elites' do the most disgusting, vile and cowardly acts to maintain their power and to keep others down. They then point at the ignorant masses and call them 'vulgar'.
 
#65 ·
Is that true, I wonder. Thinking about how classical music in Soviet countries was subsidised (and very well played thanks to excellent musical education) and how all the poshness was taken out of attending concerts, classical music thrived with audiences drawn from all sections of society. The Soviets killed millions of their people but they did treat classical music as something that belonged to all.
 
#38 · (Edited by Moderator)
The atonal/serial nonsense should just be stopped. Classical orchestras are often used for films and video games. So its sellable to average Joes. I have also heard from average Joes that they like Beethovens 5th full symphony. But they don't like to go to the concert house and sit there. The internet increases the accessibility today what helps. But we need more new music because everything has a half-life. Therefore it is necessary for classical composers to understand that many musical developments of the 20th century were bad and wrong.
 
#40 ·
I agree with the above posts that classical music was NEVER popular with average middle class Joes.

Of course I am not a musicologist and the above is just an opinion.
 
#50 ·
The following is my summary of some reading I've been doing in the book Music: A Subversive History by Ted Gioia.

The dichotomy of good music (for elites) and bad music (for peons) all started with the Greeks. Music of the slaves, was "harmful" as played on the aulos and was deemed unfit while the beneficial music was played on the lyre, the preferred instrument for making good music. One spurious reason given was a musician can't play the flute and use language at the same time, and so the potential for this music to serve as a tool of education is limited. String instruments are superior because they can accompany morally uplifting, sung messages.

According to Socrates aulos music is for drunkards, yet even the music itself can intoxicate, without the alcohol. He is horrified that responsible individuals sometimes open their ears to this pernicious sound. "The result is that such people become quick-tempered, prone to anger, and filled with discontent."

Ironically, on his deathbed Plato had a slave-girl to serenade him on the aulos, finally giving into his base nature.

Aristotle also held strong convictions about melodies and rhythms; some contribute to virtue, he explains, but others are dangerous and intoxicating. Indeed, every aspect of music requires political consideration and guidance. The elites attempted to exert control over our music for a long, long time.

Later, Nietzsche saw the lyre and flute as emblematic of the opposed Apollonian and Dionysian tendencies in ancient culture-the former emphasizing rule-making and restraint, the latter embracing rule-breaking and irrationality. The lyre, as a well-tuned string instrument, promotes the harmony and order of society, while the flute draws on human breath for its soul-shaking sounds, and thus serves as a dangerous instigator of passion and ecstatic states.

In our own time we are familiar with the same kind of thinking also concerning the music of slaves, the blues, played on the guitar with a knife or bottleneck to create slides and bending the strings outside of the standardized tuning of Western music also established by the Greeks, was considered primitive music.

We may think we have left such debates behind in modern times, but anyone who has read cautionary statements on music from the modern heirs of Plato-for example, Allan Bloom in his book The Closing of the American Mind-will find similar arguments, although with the electric guitar replacing the flute as the source of moral contagion. Here the lyre-like guitar has been flipped from good to bad.

And of course the railings against "atonal" honking we see on TC all the time.

But "primitive" music has survived the elites after all.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Appreciating classical music seems to be closesly connected with respecting culture in general, which can be effectively taught. I cannot comment on the education system in the US or elsewhere, but at least here we are taught music theory and classical music and jazz history since middle school for many years. The best schools in the country are actually old and historic public schools, making any kind of social class distinction rather unimportant. I think social class isn’t even a massive game-changer in our contemporary world where most people in the Western countries at least have access to Youtube and streaming services. Of course, being from a well-to-do family might increase your chances, but it’s by no means a requirement and most definitely not a guarantee. You don’t have to be part of the upper-middle class or social elite to be exposed to classical music. Classical music fans and musicians should also get rid of the uppity stereotype that classical music carries - the very stereotype that classical music is “elitist.”

I think that people should simply be exposed to classical music as early as possible, and classical music has to make itself accessible to general public, not only an erudite musical elite who enjoys atonality and contemporary avant-gardism. I got more deeply interested in classical music after watching the VPO New Year concert on TV. People should simply be exposed to that kind of easily accessible classical music more frequently than once a year.
 
#102 · (Edited)
Appreciating classical music seems to be closesly connected with respecting culture in general, which can be effectively taught. I cannot comment on the education system in the US or elsewhere, but at least here we are taught music theory and classical music and jazz history since middle school for many years. The best schools in the country are actually old and historic public schools, making any kind of social class distinction rather unimportant. I think social class isn't even a massive game-changer in our contemporary world where most people in the Western countries at least have access to Youtube and streaming services. Of course, being from a well-to-do family might increase your chances, but it's by no means a requirement and most definitely not a guarantee. You don't have to be part of the upper-middle class or social elite to be exposed to classical music. Classical music fans and musicians should also get rid of the uppity stereotype that classical music carries - the very stereotype that classical music is "elitist."

I think that people should simply be exposed to classical music as early as possible, and classical music has to make itself accessible to general public, not only an erudite musical elite who enjoys atonality and contemporary avant-gardism. I got more deeply interested in classical music after watching the VPO New Year concert on TV. People should simply be exposed to that kind of easily accessible classical music more frequently than once a year.
In the US, at least where I live, anything relating to the fine arts isn't really a requirement until you're like age 14 in high school. And even then the only thing you need is a year of any fine art, be it be classical music, piano, band, choir, dance.

I took dance and piano.
 
#52 ·
- Because it is better when more people have the chance to learn to appreciate a broader spectrum of beautiful things.
- Because it helps the endangered status of CM if more people like it and it gains a broader audience.
- Because there are supposedly a lot of beneficial side effects from listening to and especially making (classical) music oneself.
 
#54 ·
Why do you think this audience you wish to cultivate for classical music has not embraced it in the past? And why do you think they will suddenly appreciate the supposedly beneficial side effects from classical music?

It could be that they have already found the kind of music they enjoy and have no interest in classical music. Maybe their experience with classical music was not a positive one.

Would you suddenly embrace a music you don't listen to if someone made your argument to you for listening to it?
 
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