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Most authoritative DVD/Blu-ray versions by wide consensus

28K views 43 replies 14 participants last post by  Almaviva 
#1 ·
I thought of a new thread.
We should list those DVD and Blu-Ray versions of operas that are absolutely the best version by wide consensus; the really definitive, authoritative productions that leave the competition miles behind and may go unmatched for many years to come.

We should only list those productions that have earned the TC Opera forum members' almost unanimous endorsement, or if not almost unanimous, at least by vast majority.

I can think of some candidates:

The Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare with Danielle de Niese
The Glyndebourne Cosi fan Tutte with Miah Persson
The Les Arts Florissants Les Indes Galantes with Patricia Petibon

These three happen to be recent productions, but old timers are also welcome - those productions that are so good, with such great singers, orchestras, conductors, and stage directors, that most of us feel that they are precious parts of any collection, the kind we'd take to the proverbial desert island.

We've had similar threads - one about each person's top 6 DVDs, for instance - but I think the difference here would be that I'm not interested in individual opinions (in the idiosyncratic sense). I'm interested in those DVDs and blu-rays that are so amazingly good that *many, many* members vouch for them.

Of course, I do welcome individually-driven *nominations* (that's what this thread is for), but then there should be some discussion, and the other members should agree that the particular production is memorable enough and is enough of a consensus to deserve to be on the final list. Say, if at least 80% of the thread participants agree that it belongs there.

We have had a top-100 recommended *operas* - regardless of production. Now we could get to, say, the top 20 recommended productions on DVD or blu-ray. Maybe there aren't 20 that would achieve such wide consensus; maybe there is just a handful of these; or maybe not, maybe there are many indeed, and this thread will be our way to dig them out and give them the applause that they deserve.

So, what other DVDs or blu-rays could be considered to have reached wide consensus among us?

(Please, no Copenhagen Ring with pregnant Brunnhilde...:lol:)
 
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#4 ·
I endorse the Dessay Orphee Aux Enfers. The comic flair of that version makes it completely unbeatable.

Regarding the Magic Flute, I think some people have other versions in mind. I'm not as sure about consensus for that one. Even though I certainly disagree, it seems like many prefer the abridged version in English translation from the Met.
 
#3 ·
Good idea. Almost like a reference thread for any one of us who are considering which version to buy, whereby broad general consensus can be assumed to be indicative. (Unless of course, one is an ardent lover of 20th century music and often critical of general consensus ... )

The nature of this thread implies that the operas here are likely to be relatively more popular ones in order for the general consensus to be credible.

Yes, I can agree with those three versions listed above by the OP. No doubt.

I'll put forth a popular opera. Bizet's Carmen. Another Glyndebourne Opera House production with Anne-Sofie von Otter. Agreeable or are there better versions out there?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Good idea. Almost like a reference thread for any one of us who are considering which version to buy, whereby broad general consensus can be assumed to be indicative. (Unless of course, one is an ardent lover of 20th century music and often critical of general consensus ... )

The nature of this thread implies that the operas here are likely to be relatively more popular ones in order for the general consensus to be credible.

Yes, I can agree with those three versions listed above by the OP. No doubt.

I'll put forth a popular opera. Bizet's Carmen. Another Glyndebourne Opera House production with Anne-Sofie von Otter. Agreeable or are there better versions out there?
Whether other versions of Carmen are better or not, is not what is to be debated. It's rather whether there is wide consensus on just one version among our membership, and unfortunately, in the case of Carmen, I don't think so. I've seen people talking about the Antonacci/Kaufmann version, or one of the two Maria Ewing versions, or the Fra label one from Sir Gardiner with Antonacci as well, etc. It's hard to reach a consensus with Carmen.

I'm saying these things just to express my opinion, it's not because I'm the OP that my ideas should prevail, I'm aiming for a membership consensus. It's too early to tell, we need to wait several days for more members to speak up, and then things will start to fall in place.

I'd certainly hope that Anna Netrebko and Villazon's L'Elisir d'Amore would qualify, since I find it vastly superior to other versions. And while my preferred version of La Traviata is the Salzburg 2005 one with the same couple, I know that I can't propose that one because many here dislike its updated setting so there is no consensus.

Another one that might approach unanimity would be Der Rosenkavalier with Kleiber conducting, and Fassbaender, Jones, and Popp.

I guess the Ring is too complex for consensus, but I've seen lots of people picking the Barenboim Ring as the best current version.
 
#7 ·
L'Amour de Loin - that's an easy consensus because there is no other version that I know of, and the existing one is praised enough to qualify, I think.

The recent Met production of La Damnation de Faust is not yet out on DVD but when it is, I believe it will gather wide endorsement. It's on MetPlayer for now.
 
#11 ·
I would find this very useful because in many cases I've only got one version on DVD of an opera.
I know that it's not the stated purpose of this thread, but I agree. As a more ambitious and long-term project, having votes on as many operas as possible and recording the winners in a stickied single thread would be fantastic. Then if you're in the mood to buy something, you can just consult the thread to find one that, even if it's not the best for your specific tastes, will likely be very, very good. A definitive list would take months, but even a more modest list would be hugely helpful to people such as myself who only own a dozen or so on dvd. Just start with the most popular operas and go from there.
 
#9 ·
Would the Dessay Fille du Regiment count? I guess the only serious competition would be from the Joan Sutherland version, but I've not seen it and don't know how good it is.

Probably the easiest way to come up with likely operas is to think not of really good versions, but to think of operas that have a limited selection available on dvd. For example, there's so many versions of La Boheme that it's unlikely everyone can agree on a single version being best.
 
#15 ·
Doesn't that poll method presuppose that we buy DVDs based on what is the best version by "wide consensus"? I don't... :confused: Because even though such a consensus might say an older production of an opera with a cast of Pavarotti, Sutherland etc is unarguably the best, I probably still won't like it, because I'm generally not a fan of older productions with lesser sound and image quality. Maybe the majority will think it's a great idea to have such polls, but I fear it will turn into another attempt to "get rid of" individual taste in favour of an "objective" truth.

I didn't meant for that to sound very aggressive..I'm not mad at anyone, I just don't think it will work.

And, I prefer the Copenhagen Giulio Cesare with Andreas Scholl to the Glyndebourne one. :)
 
#17 ·
No, it's not necessarily to be used to buy DVDs. Some here said it would help them decide on their purchases, but a lot of what we do here is just to have fun and to start a conversation in which we exchange views about operas and opera recordings with people who share our passion for the artform. When this has the side effect of also helping some people decide on how to expand their collections, it's a welcome effect rather than an undesirable one. As for individual taste, wide consensus doesn't mean unanimity. That's why the maximum percentage I've ever proposed here was 80%, which still implies 20% of dissent. Finally, nobody here has ever proposed any objective truth. All we can imply from these polls is that they reflect the preferences of the people who post here and decide to participate of the polls. If your preference is for the Copenhagen Giulio Cesare, more power to you!

Like I said before, there are several sources out there for hardcore opera information - several books, encyclopedias, specialized magazines, schools, professional organizations. I don't come here for objective information. What we do here (at least what *I* do, I can only speak for me) is just for fun. I'm not fishing for any absolute truth and I have no interest in excluding the opinion of those who have more individual tastes.

I respect the fact that this kind of thread doesn't work for you and is not to your liking, but fortunately the site has a large variety of threads and those who don't like this kind of exercise will have no trouble finding other threads of which they'll feel more compelled to participate.

If you do want to participate, though, I'll be delighted to read your views. Now, for instance, you got me all curious to explore the Copenhagen Giulio Cesare.:tiphat:
 
#23 ·
The Ring might be a tough place to start since there really isn't a definitive video. I've sampled 6 different ones and none totally captivated me and some were, to me, very disappointing. (although I did recently buy an all region DVD unit partly so that I could try the rest of the Barenboim set).


The problem with the concept is how many have seen enough of the competing versions or even any of the more obscure operas to make an informed decision. Other than the Ring, it is rare for me to have more than 2 versions of an opera video.
 
#27 ·
The problem with the concept is how many have seen enough of the competing versions or even any of the more obscure operas to make an informed decision. Other than the Ring, it is rare for me to have more than 2 versions of an opera video.
You have a good point. That's why I'm hesitating regarding this project.
My own knowledge of the operatic repertoire and its recording in sound and video is broad rather than deep. While I know most of the important operas in one version or another, I can't say that I know many versions of each notable opera.

I believe that members such as Herkku and mamascarlatti have seen many different versions of each important opera, but it's not my case.

So I wonder if there is a point in proposing these polls. Like you said, most prospective participants won't know many different versions to be able to cast a meaningful vote.
 
#28 ·
agree it would be difficult. For example with the Ring, I (and the Gramophone reviewer) love the Copenhagen Ring but I know it is a very controversial production, so I couldn't recommend it in good faith. Alma loves the Salzburg Traviata, I'm rather meh about it. HarsichordConcerto would recommend the von Otter Carmen, I would urge people to steer away from it. Maybe it's best to have these discussions on the opera on DVD thread rather than do a poll, so that we can bring out the reasons for our choices.

I do have multiple copies of some operas (eg Nozze, the Ring, Don Giovanni, Carmen, Tosca, La Traviata, Lohengrin) but often would be hard pressed to recommend a version.

Maybe we should do what we did for the 100 opera thread and nominate our ten top DVD picks, then choose those that have been nominated three times and vote on an order, and so on?
 
#30 ·
I thought of a new thread.
I can think of some candidates:

The Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare with Danielle de Niese
The Glyndebourne Cosi fan Tutte with Miah Persson
The Les Arts Florissants Les Indes Galantes with Patricia Petibon
I feel compelled to point out a typographical error here that seems obvious enough, but, curiously, has not been mentioned yet: As you will recall, I've already conducted an in-depth analysis of the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare (the one with 3/4 of Pompey's head on the cover) elsewhere and clearly identified it as Eurotrash.

Presumably, you meant to write the Covent Garden Rosenkavalier with Te Kanawa (an excusable slip of mind).
 
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