You know what, folks? I think we should do the list of recommended DVDs/blu-rays to go along with our top 100 recommended operas, as per the extensive discussions in the "Most authoritative" thread.
The best way to do it is to get less ambitious. No need for "most authoritative" or "wide consensus."
Let's not do polls because they require one thread per opera. This would flood this sub-forum.
Let's not worry about percentages, consensus, or whether an opera has several versions on video or just one (I mean, let's not worry about it while voting, because as you'll see, I'll report these findings in the final result).
Let's just consider what we recommend the most for each opera. Some of these will be consensual, some will not. Some will be very diluted, some will not. That's OK. We'll just do what we can.
To simplify even more the process, I'd say that each person should nominate ONE version for each opera. The nomination is already the vote. If a subsequent user agrees that the previous user's nomination is indeed the best version, just say "I second the nomination of ..... (name of the version)." If you have a different version that in your opinion is better, then, nominate it, instead of endorsing one that has already been nominated.
So, we go one by one down our top 100 list, and we give ourselves 48 hours for each opera to collect the nominations/votes (since not all members log in every day). At the end of 48 hours, we simply count the nominations and endorsements, and the version with the most votes wins. In case of tie, we do a 24-hour tie-breaker.
I volunteer to count the votes, report the results, and organize the process/keep track of the 48/24 hrs periods.
I intend to report the result like this:
# of the opera in our top 100 list - name of the most voted version (opera house, year, conductor) and how many votes it has gathered - number of nominated versions - approximate number of available versions. This complete result will give to someone consulting the list a notion of how valid or how consensual (or not) the winner was.
Examples (hypothetical):
# 7 The Marriage of Papageno - Baghdad Green Zone Opera 2007 - conducted by George W. Bush - 4 votes among 8 voters (50%) who picked among 3 nominees out of 5 existing versions.
# 8 La Rondine Ladra - North Pole Opera 1998 - conducted by Santa Claus - 2 votes among 10 voters (20% - tied with another version, winner of tie breaker) who picked among 8 nominees out of 9 existing versions.
# 9 Die Meistersingers von England Got Talent - Pyongyang Opera House 2001 - conducted by Kim Jong-il - 1 vote by 1 voter who nominated the only existing version
#10 L'Incoronazione di Netrebko - Cool **** Opera House 2010 - conducted by Almaviva - 12 votes among 15 voters (80%) who picked among 4 nominees out of 4 existing versions.
So you have above opera # 7 with average consensus, # 8 with low consensus, # 9 with very low or nonexistent consensus, and # 10 with high consensus.
Therefore someone looking to buy these operas on video will be highly confident about the winning version of opera #10, fairly confident about the winner for opera number 7, may want to explore more and screen more carefully the various versions of opera number 8, and will have to be content with the only existing version of opera number 9 in case the person really wants to own a video version of it, although chances are it's pretty weak since only one member nominated it in spite of it having no competition.
If an opera doesn't have a video version this will be spelled out, and a CD version will be recommended instead.
If an opera has video versions but they are all bad and nobody wants to nominate any of them, this will be spelled out as well, and a CD version will be recommended instead.
Fair enough? I think this is an easy way to do it, and the final report will reflect the relative confidence we'll have with the results. An opera like La Bohème with dozens of versions will be lucky to have one single version with more than one voter/endorser, but maybe a couple of versions will have more than one and we'll tie-break them if necessary. If we can't break a tie (say, there's a 10-way tie of 10 different versions, each nominated by a different member), we should designate someone our official ultimate tie-breaker. I'd invite Herkku to assume this role, because I believe he is the member here who has seen the most different versions of most operas.
An opera like L'Amour de Loin has only one version but it is a pretty good one so it may gather strong endorsement. People will see that it's only one nominee out of one version but it got endorsed by many. An opera like Giulio Cesare has a handful of versions but there is one that I expect will win most if not all endorsements.
One word about nominations/endorsements: you should only nominate or endorse a version that you consider to be very good and worth buying, and hopefully better than other versions you know. If you know only one version of a given opera but it fulfills these conditions - you find it to be very good and worth buying - then do go ahead and nominate it. However if, say, there is only one version of an opera and you don't like it at all, don't nominate it just because it's the only one available. In that case, we'll spell out that nobody felt comfortable nominating the one version available, and once the 48 hours are over, we'll open nominations of CD versions for that opera. If an opera has several versions but you only know one version of it - and you don't like that version at all, then again, don't nominate it just because it's the one you know.
I'm insisting on this because to make the process simple, I'm thinking of a nomination *that is also a vote* so that we don't need to do it twice. 2 days for each of 100 operas make already 200 days so the process will only end seven months from now (not counting tie-breakers that may extend it even more). I don't want to make it 400 days. That's why nobody should nominate something just for the sake of getting another version in, if the person doesn't really endorse that version and doesn't think it is worth buying it. Similarly, if your preferred version has been nominated already, don't add another one, just endorse the one you prefer.
To make it fun, don't hesitate to give reasons for your nominations/endorsements in your post, or to paste pictures of the cover, more info about the version, etc.
To make it easy on me, do take the trouble of mentioning, together with your nomination, the opera house, the conductor, and the year of the production. But if you don't know these details, as long as you can indicate with no ambiguity what version you're talking about, I'll take it from there and will complete the details for you. And if you happen to know with absolute certainty how many versions exist of a given opera, do let me know (in the absence of someone affirming that he or she knows for sure how many versions are available, I'll try to look up the answer in a pool of commercial sites - amazon.com, etc). These sites may not *list* all available versions or some may be out of print - that's why I said I'll mention the *approximate* number of versions.
Any concerns or suggestions?
If not, let's play?
Our number 1 opera is Der Ring des Nibelungen.
I nominate the 1991 Bayreuther Festspiele version conducted by Barenboim.
Other nominations for versions of Der Ring des Nibelungen (or endorsements of this version, or any subsequently nominated version) are open for 48 hours. The day after tomorrow at approximately 9 PM ET, I'll be posting the results of the nominations/endorsements for the Ring.
The best way to do it is to get less ambitious. No need for "most authoritative" or "wide consensus."
Let's not do polls because they require one thread per opera. This would flood this sub-forum.
Let's not worry about percentages, consensus, or whether an opera has several versions on video or just one (I mean, let's not worry about it while voting, because as you'll see, I'll report these findings in the final result).
Let's just consider what we recommend the most for each opera. Some of these will be consensual, some will not. Some will be very diluted, some will not. That's OK. We'll just do what we can.
To simplify even more the process, I'd say that each person should nominate ONE version for each opera. The nomination is already the vote. If a subsequent user agrees that the previous user's nomination is indeed the best version, just say "I second the nomination of ..... (name of the version)." If you have a different version that in your opinion is better, then, nominate it, instead of endorsing one that has already been nominated.
So, we go one by one down our top 100 list, and we give ourselves 48 hours for each opera to collect the nominations/votes (since not all members log in every day). At the end of 48 hours, we simply count the nominations and endorsements, and the version with the most votes wins. In case of tie, we do a 24-hour tie-breaker.
I volunteer to count the votes, report the results, and organize the process/keep track of the 48/24 hrs periods.
I intend to report the result like this:
# of the opera in our top 100 list - name of the most voted version (opera house, year, conductor) and how many votes it has gathered - number of nominated versions - approximate number of available versions. This complete result will give to someone consulting the list a notion of how valid or how consensual (or not) the winner was.
Examples (hypothetical):
# 7 The Marriage of Papageno - Baghdad Green Zone Opera 2007 - conducted by George W. Bush - 4 votes among 8 voters (50%) who picked among 3 nominees out of 5 existing versions.
# 8 La Rondine Ladra - North Pole Opera 1998 - conducted by Santa Claus - 2 votes among 10 voters (20% - tied with another version, winner of tie breaker) who picked among 8 nominees out of 9 existing versions.
# 9 Die Meistersingers von England Got Talent - Pyongyang Opera House 2001 - conducted by Kim Jong-il - 1 vote by 1 voter who nominated the only existing version
#10 L'Incoronazione di Netrebko - Cool **** Opera House 2010 - conducted by Almaviva - 12 votes among 15 voters (80%) who picked among 4 nominees out of 4 existing versions.
So you have above opera # 7 with average consensus, # 8 with low consensus, # 9 with very low or nonexistent consensus, and # 10 with high consensus.
Therefore someone looking to buy these operas on video will be highly confident about the winning version of opera #10, fairly confident about the winner for opera number 7, may want to explore more and screen more carefully the various versions of opera number 8, and will have to be content with the only existing version of opera number 9 in case the person really wants to own a video version of it, although chances are it's pretty weak since only one member nominated it in spite of it having no competition.
If an opera doesn't have a video version this will be spelled out, and a CD version will be recommended instead.
If an opera has video versions but they are all bad and nobody wants to nominate any of them, this will be spelled out as well, and a CD version will be recommended instead.
Fair enough? I think this is an easy way to do it, and the final report will reflect the relative confidence we'll have with the results. An opera like La Bohème with dozens of versions will be lucky to have one single version with more than one voter/endorser, but maybe a couple of versions will have more than one and we'll tie-break them if necessary. If we can't break a tie (say, there's a 10-way tie of 10 different versions, each nominated by a different member), we should designate someone our official ultimate tie-breaker. I'd invite Herkku to assume this role, because I believe he is the member here who has seen the most different versions of most operas.
An opera like L'Amour de Loin has only one version but it is a pretty good one so it may gather strong endorsement. People will see that it's only one nominee out of one version but it got endorsed by many. An opera like Giulio Cesare has a handful of versions but there is one that I expect will win most if not all endorsements.
One word about nominations/endorsements: you should only nominate or endorse a version that you consider to be very good and worth buying, and hopefully better than other versions you know. If you know only one version of a given opera but it fulfills these conditions - you find it to be very good and worth buying - then do go ahead and nominate it. However if, say, there is only one version of an opera and you don't like it at all, don't nominate it just because it's the only one available. In that case, we'll spell out that nobody felt comfortable nominating the one version available, and once the 48 hours are over, we'll open nominations of CD versions for that opera. If an opera has several versions but you only know one version of it - and you don't like that version at all, then again, don't nominate it just because it's the one you know.
I'm insisting on this because to make the process simple, I'm thinking of a nomination *that is also a vote* so that we don't need to do it twice. 2 days for each of 100 operas make already 200 days so the process will only end seven months from now (not counting tie-breakers that may extend it even more). I don't want to make it 400 days. That's why nobody should nominate something just for the sake of getting another version in, if the person doesn't really endorse that version and doesn't think it is worth buying it. Similarly, if your preferred version has been nominated already, don't add another one, just endorse the one you prefer.
To make it fun, don't hesitate to give reasons for your nominations/endorsements in your post, or to paste pictures of the cover, more info about the version, etc.
To make it easy on me, do take the trouble of mentioning, together with your nomination, the opera house, the conductor, and the year of the production. But if you don't know these details, as long as you can indicate with no ambiguity what version you're talking about, I'll take it from there and will complete the details for you. And if you happen to know with absolute certainty how many versions exist of a given opera, do let me know (in the absence of someone affirming that he or she knows for sure how many versions are available, I'll try to look up the answer in a pool of commercial sites - amazon.com, etc). These sites may not *list* all available versions or some may be out of print - that's why I said I'll mention the *approximate* number of versions.
Any concerns or suggestions?
If not, let's play?
Our number 1 opera is Der Ring des Nibelungen.
I nominate the 1991 Bayreuther Festspiele version conducted by Barenboim.
Other nominations for versions of Der Ring des Nibelungen (or endorsements of this version, or any subsequently nominated version) are open for 48 hours. The day after tomorrow at approximately 9 PM ET, I'll be posting the results of the nominations/endorsements for the Ring.