I recently heard Hahn's performance of Schoenberg's Violin Concerto. I found it strange. Although, since i am new to genre, i lack the knowledge and skill to judge. I was wondering what others thought of this work?
Well, it's strange, that's true, but it has a kind of alienated beauty to it. There are so many bizarre and wonderful moments throughout the whole thing, which would be a virtuoso showpiece if there were more violinists who were willing to add it to their repertoire. Examples off the top of my head: all those pizzicato/arco combinations the soloist has to pull off, the accompanied return of the theme in its original form in the slow movement, and last but not least, that stunningly weird duet for violin and snare drum in the finale.
Hahn's performance is one of the few that can really meet the concerto's rigorous demands, but of course in the future there will be more who can.
I hope it becomes a more frequently performed work. I would love to see it performed live, but alas, around these parts, Schoenberg very seldom shows up on the concert programs.
I don't think any of Schönberg's music is something one get/understands during first contact! I think You need to emerge Yourself slowly in to it's sounding structures and eventually, when you have mustered the experience it takes she will reveal her self to You like the Rafflesia, it may be the smelliest things Your ears have ever heard, but it still have an eternal beauty!
the piece was written in 1936, the same year as the String Quartet No. 4.
Although the Violin Concerto uses twelve-tone technique, its neoclassical form demanded a mimesis of tonal melody (mimesis = imitation, allusion), and hence a renunciation of the motivic technique used in his earlier work in favour of a thematic structure.
While the row is not necessary for understanding any good twelve-note piece, an awareness of it in this concerto is useful because the row is very much in the foreground, and is quite obviously abstracted from Schoenberg's concrete melodic-thematic thinking.
In other words, he is "imitating" tonality, by "memesis" of tonal melody and themes.
The row is: A-B♭-E♭-B-E-F♯-C-C♯-G-A♭-D-F
In playing the row on my piano, I am struck by the melodic implications, and the use of fourths, fifths (inversional counterparts of each other), and tritones, with their 3/7 dominant implications. For example, A-Bb-Eb is a fourth with a b5 'leading tone.' Then another fourth, B-E; then an implied 'melodic' fourth, F#/C#, with 'leading tone' C: F#-C-C#. Then a fifth, G/D with an implied #9, G-Ab-D.
Thus, it is interesting to observe how Schoenberg strives with this row set-up to create "allusions" to tonality, although in reality, this music is atonal, and the row-order is the determining factor. The music is atonal, and the bizarre, if not downright ugly "themes" have already been acknowledged as such.
I might also add, that it helps if a person likes atonal music to begin with. Also, speaking for myself, conversion to an atonal aesthetic happened rather suddenly and unexpectedly.
I think is an excellent oeuvre. At moments it has quite the zest of Schostakovich's string quartets. I have it with Zvi Zeitlin at the violin with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Rafael Kubelik.
I just accept atonal music as it is. It is not always a simple matter of "liking" it, because, as in this Violin Concerto, the "themes" are so bizarre and unsettling. In the end, my overall impression is of being overwhelmed by some huge force, like being in a tornado. A feeling of massive edifices, massive power, almost scary. The true meaning of "awe."
Why put theme in scare quotes? A theme is a theme. I don't find the music unsettling, like, say, Erwartung, which is an expression of alienation and horror throughout. A lot of Schoenberg's later music is filled with a warped kind of Viennese gemutlichkeit (charm is the simplest explanation, I suppose, but it's more than that).
I love the piece. In Hahn's hands, it's a bit less abrasive than usual. I just wish it had been issued as an SACD. Oh well. Heifetz declared that it had been written for a violinist with six fingers on his left hand!
Like others here, I found it hard to appreciate at first, but it grew on me. Didn't take too long in the scheme of things to like and enjoy, if that's the word. Its a work that overall has this kind of black and white, monochromatic colour, but the last movement with that prominent percussion as mentioned (and also the crazy dance tune that goes thru that movement) kind of unites the work for me. Sometimes I feel that the violin here is battered by the percussionist (I think its a snare drum?), and leaves the battle kind of battle scarred and wounded. Sometimes the ending makes me feel its on a high as if these challenges have been surmounted, other times I feel kind of gutted and plunged to the depths.
But I'm saying it wasn't easy for me as a listener (none of Schoenberg's music was that I now know and value) but my effort and persistence have been rewarded. & neither was it easy for Hilary Hahn, who says in the notes of that disc that she had to alter her existing violin technique to play it. & of course there's the famous anecdote that Jascha Heifetz, who Schoenberg offered it to, said it was unplayable and could only be played if he grew an extra finger. Arnie, displaying a droll sense of humour, said he'd wait for that to happen! But in the end it was premiered by Louis Krasner, the same violinist who had premiered Berg's concerto.
If Schoenberg was making this a "thematic" concerto, and chose the row to accomplish this, then why does he continually undermine melodic contour? Just a few minutes into the first movement, you can hear the wide leaps, and the super-high notes at the limits of the violin's range.
It seems to me as if he's trying to undermine comprehensible melody with these impossibly wide leaps.
If I hear Mahlerian make any comments about how Schoenberg was really "trying to be tonal" in this concerto, I'll have to un-friend him.:lol:
The widest leap I've ever seen in a single line was in Beethoven's final piano sonata in C minor, where the melody descends to D below the bass clef and leaps from there to a C-flat, nearly five octaves higher.
Schoenberg has nothing on that, and I'll bet that most people can hear it as the same melody, not some undermining of the line.
millionrainbows said:
Ha ha! I don't characterize this concerto as "light and breezy!"
Karajan, I've only heard it once and feel the same way that you do. That said, I think her reading of the Sibelius is brilliant. It seems that we could both use a bit more work on the Schoenberg; I did notice that Hahn seems to have something of a sweet tone to her violin (at least it's not shrill) in that work which I suspect may have been intended to shave off some of the rough edges. According to reviews she took the same approach with her recording of Ives' violin sonatas.
I've been studying the Schoenberg Violin Concerto for a few days now. There is a well-known musical quote played by the solo violin about half-way through the third movement that practically jolted me out of my seat through all that dissonance.
Seems to be Haydn!!
One great Austrian composer paying tribute to another.
Lots of great little passages throughout, and the finale breathes in longer spans than the rest and strikes me as the best movement by far. If I wanted to get snarky, I would say that a better composer would have found something more interesting to do with such promising material. It is unlikely I am ever going to like this work as a whole. Too fragmentary for my tastes and I find the constant little factor-of-12 chunks distracting — like seams showing everywhere. I like Hahn's performance.
Bringing this thread back to make a little plug for my son's performance as soloist in this amazing work. He played it in February with the Juilliard Orchestra and guest conductor Edward Gardner, after winning the school's Concerto Competition earlier this year, which featured this Concerto. We recently got the concert recording--you can download the FLAC files from this Google Docs link:
BTW, when he was younger Brian studied some under the late Zvi Zeitlin, and he's been performing other Schoenberg works like the Phantasie since high school.
Thank you for this wonderful gift, Bill, and I'm really looking forward to hearing this. From an initial sampling of each of the movements, it certainly sounds like a fine performance. Well done, Brian!
One of my favourite violin concertos for sure. It's so deliciously strange! It's one of those pieces that I would really love to hear live, sitting in the first row with a good view of the soloist.
I do like the Schoenberg Violin Concerto. Its opening, like that of the Piano Concerto is simply haunting, grabbing the listener's attention immediately-at least, THIS listener....as ESPECIALLY performed by Hilary Hahn....it is a haunting piece throughout....worth the effort for those unfamiliar with it.
Even so, I do feel that Schoenberg's Piano Concerto is the finer work.
I do like the Schoenberg Violin Concerto. Its opening, like that of the Piano Concerto is simply haunting, grabbing the listener's attention immediately-at least, THIS listener....as ESPECIALLY performed by Hilary Hahn....
I believe the piece is highly rewarding. I return to it periodically and always find new pleasure in the experience.
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