I usually like Handel and I really enjoy some numbers from Messiah, but it doesn't work as a whole to me. Mass in B minor I find better in this respect (which is strange, given that the movements were basically assembled from very diverse sketches and fragments).
a tie perhaps? Both are great works, it's difficult to decide. Maybe the Mass in B minor in terms of consistency, and the Messiah in terms of highlights ('And he shall purify', 'For Unto Us a Child is Born').
I just love the Messiah because there are so many belters, and hearing it at Norwich Cathedral last Christmas was such a glorious & moving experience. I'm quite ready to concede that Bach's may be the more profound in musical terms.
I think the B minor mass hits me more directly than the Messiah. Handel's work is a presentation of a narrative with word painting, but the B minor mass is a more personal experience that starts in a humble petition and leads to the throne of God.
My personal favorite to listen to is Messiah. I'm just an absolute sucker for Handel's vocal and choral writing. The Mass in B Minor is a huge favorite of mine too but I enjoy it a tad less than the other.
Handel's Messiah tops all other works for me because not only is it musically wonderful, but also it is the Word of God explaining God's plan of salvation for the world.
Very much agreed, hpowders; application of time does not make a work great--let alone a composer. Since judicious people may disagree on whether or not a work is great, and applying such a criterion presupposes that determination... Well, we know the rest.
Voted for the Mass. I wonder why almost everyone has heard of Handel's Messiah but I get a blank stare when I mention Bach's Mass or even Mozart's Requiem Mass.
Because Messiah is programmed annually in hundreds of cities across the world. And one of these days I will finally make it to one of these performances here in Houston. Shame on me for not having done it yet when I've been to so many other classical concerts. Same thing with The Nutcracker. Never seen it live.
The mass is a quasi-liturgical work that was never in its entirety performed before the mid-19th century as there was no place for a huge solemn mass in Lutheran service and it would have been too long even for the Catholics.
Even in the mid-20th century when it had been established in the repertoire, scholars debated whether it really was ONE work at all, or rather a compilation. (I think by now most honor Bach's obvious effort in bringing together the different parts late in his life, re-using the Gratias as Dona nobis pacem is obviously meant to achieve some unity, despite different ensembles/choir parts (4, 5, 6 and 8) throughout). Nevertheless, it remains a paradoxical work (and this character is totally ignored by modern audiences who of course have a perfect right not to care). I think it is a bit uneven and despite the masterstroke of repeating the great Gratias/Dona nobis at the end, it peters out after the Sanctus (the Benedictus aria is a low point for me and the Osanna is just not up with the Sanctus but of course nothing is).
Sure, most of the choirs are as good as it gets and some arias are nice (Laudamus te and Qui sedes are probably my favorites) but some of the arias are not as good as many others by Bach, I think owing to the more "abstract" text (unlike "Erbarme dich" etc. from Passions). The overly systematic (and rather similar) "ring" structure of both Gloria and Credo and all the symbolism with 100 bars and 9 of this, 24 of that, and 7 voices etc. are something I found fascinating when I first encountered the piece at 17 or 18 (and I had a book analysing all that stuff) but it is also a bit stiff and makes the piece very long. (I have seen it 3 or 4 times in concert but on disc I usually split it up)
Messiah is a non-liturgical quasi-sacred work that is probably considered more "sacred" today than it would have been 250 years ago. If the b minor Mass is some "summa musicotheologica", Messiah is a brilliant popular evangelizing book, a christian worship Rock band Unlike the little I have heard of modern popular Xtian music, I love Messiah. It also has a few lesser arias (I think "The trumpet shall sound" is just too long) but mostly it is one impressive "hit" after the other. (Admittedly, on discs I often split it up as well.) Jennens was apparently a pompous jerk but the libretto is brilliant.
It's not quite such an outlier as Bach's mass but also rather different from most other Handel oratorios in being not dramatic at all, having no acting persons. That might even have been a disadvantage back then but it is a clear advantage today because dramatic oratorios are strange hybrids and we are also not as familiar with details of the Judas Maccabaeus or Samson stories than with the core of the christian story that constitutes Messiah.
Messiah is a non-liturgical quasi-sacred work that is probably considered more "sacred" today than it would have been 250 years ago. If the b minor Mass is some "summa musicotheologica", Messiah is a brilliant popular evangelizing book, a christian worship Rock band Unlike the little I have heard of modern popular Xtian music, I love Messiah. It also has a few lesser arias (I think "The trumpet shall sound" is just too long) but mostly it is one impressive "hit" after the other. (Admittedly, on discs I often split it up as well.) Jennens was apparently a pompous jerk but the libretto is brilliant.
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We have to realise that Messiah is a work to be performed in the theatre not during the church service. Why it was not very well received in England initially. As you say the libretto is brilliant. It was however somewhat far from the Christian rock band of today!
The better comparison than with christian rock would maybe a musical "biblia pauperum" as the pictures in churches showing bible stories were called in the middle ages, except that most of Handel's audience were rather well off.
The B minor mass for me, but this work I prefer listening to just certain parts admittedly. I think it has some of the best music composed in it, but I don't listen to it as one work. The St. Matthew Passion works better in my view as one complete work, but just my opinion. They are both great masterpieces.
I have not listened to that much Handel, but I do certainly like some of his music, I respect him as a great composer. I haven't listened to the Messiah in a long time.
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