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Under rated English composers

15K views 76 replies 27 participants last post by  Ravellian 
#1 ·
There is a common belief that England has produced few composers of good standing. I do not think that this is really the problem. In fact, the problem is that we are not looking far enough back along the musical map. An entire generation of practically untouched English composers can be found in the 16th century, many of which are masters of their genre. Thomas Tallis is of course the big beast of his day, but what about Thomas Weelkes or Morley? Orlando Gibbons is a personal favourite of mine, please download his "This Is The Record Of John", it's so beautiful. Then there are many, many more composers to be "discovered", as on the tacky "classical" compilations one can buy, (or merely get free out of the "Daily Mail") these are not featured. John Blow is another (particularly his Salvator Mundi) or Dowland, Byrd, Tavener, or Tomkins. In my opinion, these composers kick ***! Is there anyone out there who feels the same way? Most of their pieces are vocal church music, but it certainly strikes a chord within me that nothing else does, and that includes many of the great later romantic giants and classical kings. I think it is because they retain a sense of the medieval bareness, which is in itself spine-tingling, but infuse it with a sense of baroquesque elegance that is, in my opinion, completely unsurpassable!
 
#2 ·
I agree full-heartedly, though I can't say I have much knowlege on the topic. I do recognize all the composers mentioned though I have never heard of The Record of John, but I love early english music. Do u recommend any recordings of it (or anywhere to get it online)? Also, what is "Daily Mail" that you talk about?

PS: Sorry its been a while since I've been on! I've been moving back to Virginia for the year.
 
#4 ·
Hey, I'm glad to hear someone else shares my enthusiasm! I have a really great recording of it by King's College choir. The Daily Mail is a newspaper in England that sometimes gives away free CD's, which are often classical. However, as you can imagine, the pieces are very often the cliched, over played ones, which are great pieces (Pachabel's Canon etc) but not exactly varied! Lol. I have also performed "This is the Record of John", which I think extended my fondness for it. I always form a much deeper attachment to a piece once I've performed it. I think it's the fact that you can be a part in creating something so amazing!
 
#7 ·
Well, to be honest the Oratorio was just emerging at this time, and as it was founded in Italy and Germany, there aren't really any Oratorio composed by true "early" English composers. There are some great motets though, and magnificats and nunc dimititis's. A really great one is Tallis' "Spem in Alium", which is a 40 part unaccompanied motet. There are also extended pieces by Weelkes and Shepherd, but not really Oratorios, I'm afraid. If you are just interested in early Oratorio generally, though, there are Italian composers such as Palestrina. He composed something called Missa Dum Complerentur, which I really like, even though it's unaccompanied. There is also Monteverdi's "Orfeo", which I think could be classed as an Oratorio, as I don't think it's really grand enough to be classed as an opera. It's accompanied, too, which makes it more Oratorio-ish. Lol. Then there are also the lesser known Bach and Handel Oratorio, such as Bach's St Matthew and Handel's "Judas Maccabes". Anyway, I'll stop babbling now.. Hope that was of some help!
 
#8 ·
A lot of early orotorio, since is was such a new idea, took the form of long masses or weirdly done operas. I love Palestrina and Tallis is amazing, though I have not heard Spem in Alium. I am going to look that up. All of the Bach passions are freakin amazing!!! and anything Handel is worth some praise. Orfeo I think is more operatic even though that was an early time for opera too. ITs hard to figure out at that time what was a opera with a religious theme, or an orotorio, which of course, could be considered both ;-). Oh well, lots of babble for no apparent purpose. Nice topic though. I haven't posted good stuff here in a while ;-). Love ya'll!
 
#9 ·
Well, I already posted Elgar's The Dream of Gerontius somewhere else, and though this is his best known work, it still doesn't get programmed a lot - at least not here in America. But the topic vivacious wagnerian addressed was early English oratorio, though the real gist of this is site is "Underrated English composers," in which I will do my best to shoot off a few.

I don't know of any early oratorios besides those of Handel's, many of which are magnificent, and should be programmed more. I would sooner hear Joseph and his Bretheren before another umpteenth performance of Messiah!

But among some of the great choral works that one doesn't hear often, there is Charles Villers Stanford's Requiem, Delius' Ein Messe des Lebens/A Mass of Life (And I would love to hear it in its English translation, though the original German is sufficient enough), the many choral/orchestral works of Samuel Coleridge-Taylor including one of his last works, A Tale of Old Japan, Wlifred Joseph's Requiem (which mixes the Hebrew Kaddish alongside parts of the Latin ordinary), Havergal Brian's monumental Gothic Symphony, and his equally astonishing fourth, Das Sigeslied (which in turn pays tribute to Brahms' lesser-known Triumplied), and George Lloyd's The Vigil of Venus, his own pagan take on Carmina Burana with a slice of Delius thrown in for good measure.
I have yet to hear Granville Bantock's epic setting of Omar Khayyam, but knowing his other music, I'm sure it's delicious!

That said, here is my list of underrated British composers:

Granville Bantock
Robert Farnon
George Lloyd
Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (still is, in my book)
Constant Lambert
William Alwyn
Arthur Benjamin (he'll forever be linked to Hitchcock by way of the film The Man Who Knew Too Much - both the original 1934 version and the 1956 Hollywood remake)
Percy Whitlock
George Butterworth
Phyllis Tate
Richard Arnell
William Lloyd Webber (yes, you all read right - the father of Andrew)
Richard Rodney Bennett

And I'm sure I left a few out...
 
#10 ·
That said, here is my list of underrated British composers:

Granville Bantock
Robert Farnon
George Lloyd
Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (still is, in my book)
Constant Lambert
William Alwyn
Arthur Benjamin (he'll forever be linked to Hitchcock by way of the film The Man Who Knew Too Much - both the original 1934 version and the 1956 Hollywood remake)
Percy Whitlock
George Butterworth
Phyllis Tate
Richard Arnell
William Lloyd Webber (yes, you all read right - the father of Andrew)
Richard Rodney Bennett

And I'm sure I left a few out...
I would add:

Wallace,Dyson,Wordsworth,Alice Smith.

Jim
 
#12 ·
My favorite unappreciated English composers are the brothers William and Henry Lawes who both worked for king Charles the first. William indeed died fighting for the king during the civil war. I have a small collection of CDs (I hope to get the chance to add more) mostly of consort music by William but also some songs by both brothers. All the music is very good and deserves to be more widely heard.
 
#14 ·
I'm suprised no one mentioned Havergal Brian. Brian is a bit of an eccentric, and his early symohonies are massive and monsterous. But he was obviously an artist of incredible creativity and imagination.

I would add Gustav Holst to the list as being "under-rated." (What...he's not German?) Yes, everyone knows about his Planets (and what a masterpiece it is), but it seems like this is the curse of the "one hit wonder." Beyond the Planets (figuratively speaking, of course!) is a wealth of music that is indeed very English and well convceived. Check out the tone poem Egdon Heath or Invocation for Cello and Orchestra. This is music of an exceptional high standard that hardly anyone seems to know anything about.
 
#22 ·
I'm suprised no one mentioned Havergal Brian. Brian is a bit of an eccentric, and his early symohonies are massive and monsterous. But he was obviously an artist of incredible creativity and imagination.
Not to be argumentative, but I disagree with you about Brian. I listened to his symphony "Gothic" twice and each time reveals another mess after another. His work really lacked the cohesive structure the piece really needed. This piece is so massive it's almost just too much. I'll leave the big symphonies to the big boys Mahler and Bruckner.
 
#18 ·
Ok, you want obscure? Let me throw into the mix the music of Richard Walthew; a contemporary, and indeed friend, of Vaughan Williams, but with a more traditional, and lighter, style. He became fairly popular in the 1920s, but rapidly fell out of favour. His music is very Brahmsian, and he has a gift for creating seemingly effortless melody. Notable works are the Suite in F for clarinet and piano (a wonderful display piece for clarinettists), the Piano Concerto and the String Quartet, although I believe the latter two are out of print.

I have attached two files, and I am hoping this will work.

The first is an example of his lighter music, The Shepherds' Wives' Song. Performers are Alison Horriben and Daniela Kahan, sopranos, and Terry McNamara, piano.

The second is a more substantial work, the Introduction, Air and Jig for piano duet. Played by Terry McNamara, Primo, and me, Secundo.

I think Walthew's music had qualities which one would hope would eventually rescue him from obscurity.
 
#19 ·
How I forgot him I don't know but Robert Simpson never seems to get his due.
I own all of the Symphonies on Hyperion and like most of them. I certainly can hear Bruckner in there!
His brass writing is assured.
Don't forget his splendid book on Bruckner "The Essence of Bruckner" which is a classic and must have for Brucknerians!

Jim
 
#20 ·
I thought Alwyn and Boughton were quite well known...

I like Alwyn's String Quartet No.1 very much, it's the only piece of his I've heard though. And Boughton, I have his Symphony No.3, Oboe Concerto No.1, the two String Quartets and the Oboe Quartet No.1. Very pleasant, tuneful, although very traditional, but there's certainly artistic quality in his works.
 
#23 ·
There are four British composers who are masters that are underrated in my opinion: Bax, Bliss, Delius, and Ireland.

Sir Arnold Bax


Sir Arthur Bliss


Frederick Delius


John Ireland
 
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#24 ·
Well, I guess the following people are under-rated. They at least have not yet been mentioned on this thread, anyway, and I doubt it's because they're too well known!

Humphrey Searle
Alan Rawsthorne
Jonty Harrison
Tim Hodgkinson
Trevor Wishart

And, if you include the Republic of Ireland (and there's no reason you should!),

Gráinne Mulvey
Frank Corcoran

(I do not think that Cornelius Cardew or Jonathan Harvey or Derek Bailey or Chris Cutler or Keith Rowe are underrated. Tim Hodgkinson and Humphrey Searle are questionable.)
 
#26 ·
There seems to be two main eras of notable British composers, from Tallis, Byrd and Co. in the 16th centuries through to Purcell at the end of the 17th. And then a huge gap of about two hundred years until a plethora of Brits came along such as Elgar, Holst, Delius etc.
Was there ever a Beethoven Brit contemporary around? Would be interesting to know!...
 
#32 ·
The most underrated English composer would, in my opinion, be William Alwyn. Witty and skillful, equally charming and interesting in every format. A modernist "with a heart". I've never understood why someone like Benjamin Britten is always placed in the front row of the great English composers. The mystery becomes even greater when you spot Alwyn back there in row three.

Another underrated English composer is Frank Bridge. Great as a romanticist, great as a modernist. I think the teacher outshone his pupil.
 
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