[SanAntone]

I quoted you in post #111 to provide the music of de Vitry. Ockeghem is coming tomorrow, Obrecxht on Sunday. de Binchois was in post #121. Troubadours, Trouveres and Minnesangers in post #60.

Looks like I haven't been paying close attention, but this kind of organized listening runs contrary to my instincts. Sorry for any offense my ignorance caused.

 

[Mandryka]

Here's a nice bit of early music

 

[Chilham]

Here's a light and entertaining video about what can be known about early notation. Howard Goodall.

Thanks for posting that. I'll watch the whole series.

Goodall is one of the sources for these recommendations.

 

[Chilham]

Incoming!

As a reminder, we're looking at works by composers born 1400-1466 except those we previously discussed as part of the Burgundian School. Still to come over the coming days, the Eton Choirbook, Obrecht, re la Rue and others. For today, Level 5 (works receiving between 4 and 6 recommendations) reveals only two pieces, both by Ockeghem.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Josquin des Prez - Missa Pange Lingua

Level 4
Josquin des Prez: Ave Maria, Gratia Plena, Dominus Tecum, Virgo Serena
Josquin des Prez: Missa l'Homme Armé super voces musicales

Level 5
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Prolationum
Ockeghem, Johannes: Requiem (Missa Pro Defunctis)

My listening today:

Ockeghem: Missa Prolationum

The Sound and the Fury

 

[SanAntone]

Sorry for the interruption, but I am back-tracking to fill in with something I did not see previously in this thread.

I did not find this mentioned in any post or level - but it is an important collection of music from the Medieval period.

Cantigas de Santa Maria

There is a TC thread devoted to the composer, or more appropriately, patron of this collection.

Alfonso X of Castile (1221 - 1284)

Some background from Wikipedia:

The Cantigas de Santa Maria (Galician: [kanˈtiɣɐz ðɪ ˈsantɐ maˈɾi.ɐ], Portuguese: [kɐ̃ˈtiɣɐʒ ðɨ ˈsɐ̃tɐ mɐˈɾi.ɐ]; "Canticles of Holy Mary") are 420 poems with musical notation, written in the medieval Galician-Portuguese language during the reign of Alfonso X of Castile El Sabio (1221-1284). Traditionally, they are all attributed to Alfonso, though scholars have since established that the musicians and poets of his court were responsible for most of them, with Alfonso being credited with a few as well.[1]

It is one of the largest collections of monophonic (solo) songs from the Middle Ages and is characterized by the mention of the Virgin Mary in every song, while every tenth song is a hymn.

The Cantigas have survived in four manuscript codices: two at El Escorial, one at Madrid's National Library, and one in Florence, Italy. The E codex from El Escorial is illuminated with colored miniatures showing pairs of musicians playing a wide variety of instruments. The Códice Rico (T) from El Escorial and the one in the Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale of Florence (F) are richly illuminated with narrative vignettes.

 

[new but obsessed]

Here's a light and entertaining video about what can be known about early notation. Howard Goodall.

Thanks for posting this. Super corny but great context! I have been trying to figure out the preponderance of liturgical/religious music in this early era, and this explains a lot.

 

[SanAntone]

Another important body of literature from the Middle Ages that has been recorded at least twice: celebrating the life of Ramon Llull

This clip is from Jordi Savall's excellent, and more recent recording.

The Last Pilgrimage, a three-CD set on the Licanus label (CDM 1640) with book released in the summer of 2016 by the Capella de Ministrers, which is based in Valencia, Spain, and directed by Carles Magraner

A native of Majorca, Llull (1232-1316) was a poet, composer, philosopher, logician, scientist, mystic, and theologian, a figure whose life prefigured the careers of such later polymaths as Leonardo da Vinci, Emanuel Swedenborg, Gottfried Leibnitz, William Playfair, Georges Gurdjieff, and Friedrich Nietzsche.

But there is no one in history quite like Llull, After forswearing his early life as a troubadour in a burst of religious inspiration, he became convinced that the way to achieve a truly Catholic world was not through conquest but through direct dialogue with people of other faiths, and to this end he bought an Arabic slave to teach him the language. He even viewed the Crusades, which he actively promoted, as a way of regaining a Near Eastern beachhead from which to interact with the Saracens. If the Nobel Peace Prize had an Old-Timers category, Llull would be a shoe-in as an honoree.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any extant music by Llull (in this he is like Leonardo). So to trace his life and achievements chronologically, the selections performed by Savall, the instrumentalists of Hespèrion XXI, and the vocalists of La Capella Reial de Catalunya are mostly drawn from the usual playbook of 13th- and 14th-century secular and sacred music, including processions, istampitta, conductus, cantigas, etc., progressing to a striking Ars Nova motet by Philippe de Vitry.

These are supplemented with exotic music of Moorish and North African origin and Sephardic chant, performed with the help of wonderful guest artists steeped in these traditions.

 

[Chilham]

More beautiful masses today, together with some short songs by Josquin.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Josquin des Prez - Missa Pange Lingua

Level 4
Josquin des Prez: Ave Maria, Gratia Plena, Dominus Tecum, Virgo Serena
Josquin des Prez: Missa l'Homme Armé super voces musicales

Level 5
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Prolationum
Ockeghem, Johannes: Requiem (Missa Pro Defunctis)

Level 6
Josquin des Prez: Miserere Mei Deus
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Cuiusvis toni
Wylkynson, Robert: Salve Regina (Eton Choir Book)
Josquin des Prez: Nymphes des Bois "Déploration sur la Mort de Johannes Ockeghem"
Ockeghem, Johannes: Deo Gratias
Josquin des Prez: Mille Regretz
Josquin des Prez: Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae
Ghizeghem, Hayne van: De Tous Biens Plaine
Isaac, Heinrich: Choralis Constantinus
Josquin des Prez: Absalom, Fili Me
Josquin des Prez: El Grillo
Josquin des Prez: Pater Noster
Josquin des Prez: Ave Maria Stella
Pierre de la Rue: Missa de Sancta Anna

I listened this morning to a couple of delightful pieces. My son was a chorister at Canterbury Cathedral and the sound, especially of the de la Rue piece, took me back to listening in the Quire. Mesmeric. Even if the meaning is a little lost on me.

Wylkynson: Salve Regina from The Eton Choir Book

Harry Christophers, The Sixteen

Pierre de La Rue: Missa de Sancta Anna

Schola Disfunctis

 

[Mandryka]

szcv,n sz,kcvs,kvc ns

 

[Mandryka]

sc.smc;lzalvc;nszavc

 

[Chilham]

Bringing this period to a close, except for other people's recommendations. If you listened to some of the more recommended works and enjoyed them, there's more, as well as new composers in Level 7 today.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Josquin des Prez - Missa Pange Lingua

Level 4
Josquin des Prez: Ave Maria, Gratia Plena, Dominus Tecum, Virgo Serena
Josquin des Prez: Missa l'Homme Armé super voces musicales

Level 5
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Prolationum
Ockeghem, Johannes: Requiem (Missa Pro Defunctis)

Level 6
Josquin des Prez: Miserere Mei Deus
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Cuiusvis toni
Wylkynson, Robert: Salve Regina (Eton Choir Book)
Josquin des Prez: Nymphes des Bois "Déploration sur la Mort de Johannes Ockeghem"
Ockeghem, Johannes: Deo Gratias
Josquin des Prez: Mille Regretz
Josquin des Prez: Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae
Ghizeghem, Hayne van: De Tous Biens Plaine
Isaac, Heinrich: Choralis Constantinus
Josquin des Prez: Absalom, Fili Me
Josquin des Prez: El Grillo
Josquin des Prez: Pater Noster
Josquin des Prez: Ave Maria Stella
Pierre de la Rue: Missa de Sancta Anna

Level 7
Brumel, Antoine: Et Ecce Terrae Motus
Obrecht, Jacob: Missa Caput
Mouton, Jean: Nesciens Mater Virgo Virum
Josquin des Prez: Missa de Beate Virgine
Cornysh, William: Salve Regina
Browne, John: O Maria Salvatoris mater (Eton Choir Book)
Brumel, Antoine: Missa de Beata Virgine
Agricola, Alexander: Missa in Myne Zyn
William Cornysh: Ah, Robin
Mouton, Jean: Quaeramus Cum Pastoribus
Cornysh, William: Ave Maria (Eton Choir Book)
Fayrfax, Robert: Magnificat "Regale" (Eton Choir Book)
Hygons, Richard: Salve Regina (Eton Choir Book)
Isaac, Heinrich: Innsbruck, Ich Muss Dich Lassen
Lambe, Walter Stella Caali (Eton Choir Book)
Sturton, William: Gaude Virgo Mater Christi à 6 (from the Eton Choir Book)
Brown, John: Salve Regina (Eton Choir Book)
Paumann, Conrad: Buxheimer Orgelbuch
Paumann, Conrad: O Rosa Balla
Anon. : Deo Gratias Anglia "Agincourt Carol"
Ockeghem, Johannes: Ave Maria
Ockeghem, Johannes: Fors Seulement l'Attente
Ockeghem, Johannes: Ma Bouche Rit et Ma Pensée Pleure
Ockeghem, Johannes: Missa Caput
Ockeghem, Johannes: O Clemens, O Pia, O Dulcis
Ockeghem, Johannes: Salve Regina
Ockeghem, Johannes: Ut Heremita Solus
Tinctoris, Johannes: Missa l'Homme Armé
Martini, Johannes: J'Ay Pris Amours
Martini, Johannes: La Martinella
Weerbeke, Gaspar van: Mater, Patris Filia
Weerbeke, Gaspar van: Quem Terra Pontus Aethera
Basiron, Philippe: Missa l'Homme Armé
Basiron, Philippe: Salve Regina
Anon. : Nova, nova! Ave fit ex Eva
Isaac, HeinrichJBenedictus
Isaac, Heinrich: 'Ay Pris Amours
Isaac, Heinrich: Missa de Apostolis
Isaac, Heinrich: Missa Quant J'Ay au Cuer
Isaac, Heinrich: Missa Super La Spagna
Isaac, Heinrich: SS Giovanni e Paolo
Josquin des Prez: Agnus Dei II
Josquin des Prez: Benedicta es Coelorum Regina
Josquin des Prez: Christ, Fili Dei
Josquin des Prez: Gaudeamus Introit
Josquin des Prez: Ile Fantazies de Joskin
Josquin des Prez: La Bernardina
Josquin des Prez: Memor Esto Verbi Tui Servo Tuo
Josquin des Prez: Vive le Roy
Pierre de la Rue: O Salutaris Hostia
Pierre de la Rue: Requiem Mass
Obrecht, Jacob: J'Ay Pris Amours
Obrecht, Jacob: Missa l'Homme Armé
Faugues, Guillaume: Missa l'Homme Armé
Cara, Marchetto: Mal un Muta per Effecto

More from the Eton Choir Book for me today:

Lambe: Stella Caeli
Cornysh: Ave Maria, Mater Dei

Harry Christophers, The Sixteen

Composers born 1467-1533 coming next. Palestrina, Tallis, Lassus and lots of other good stuff.

 

[Chilham]

On to composers born 1467-1533, and our work of the week, the most recommended work of the period, is most highly recommended piece we've come across so far.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Palestrina, Giovanni Pierluigi da: Missa Papae Marcelli

My listening today:

Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli

Harry Christophers, The Sixteen

 

[Bwv 1080]

Of course it’s a myth that this piece ‘saved’ polyphony

 

[SanAntone]

Of course it's a myth that this piece 'saved' polyphony

What is not a myth is the state of perfection Palestrina brought to 16h century counterpoint.

 

[Mandryka]

That's a lot of composers with imperfect counterpoint then.

 

[Chilham]

Just one quite short piece for today, but what a gem:

Level 1
No works

Level 2
Palestrina, Giovanni Pierluigi da: Missa Papae Marcelli

Level 3
Tallis, Thomas: Spem in Alium

My listening today:

Tallis: Spem in Alium

Peter Phillips, Tallis Scholars

More options listed here.

 

[RICK RIEKERT]

That's a lot of composers with imperfect counterpoint then.

Palestrina is among the most influential composers of all time. His contrapuntal style was codified by Johann Fux, whose book Gradus ad Parnassum ("Steps to Paradise"), published in 1725, broke Palestrina's contrapuntal technique down into five types or "species" of counterpoint. Fux's work has been the bedrock of counterpoint pedagogy, making it among the most important and widest read books on music ever written. J. S. Bach held it in the highest esteem. According to Haydn's first biographer, his personal friend Georg August von Griesinger, "Haydn took infinite pains to assimilate the theory of Fux". Leopold Mozart instructed his son Wolfgang from his personal copy of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum and Mozart himself used the Gradus later in life when he himself taught. It became Beethoven's guide to composition and he used it in his own teaching as well. When Fux's tome was translated into French in 1833 and sold by subscription, the subscribers included Berlioz, Cherubini, Meyerbeer, Chopin, Rossini, Paganini, Ignaz Moscheles, Johann Nepomuk Hummel, and Liszt. Schubert, Brahms, and Bruckner all studied Palestrinan counterpoint using the original, Latin-language version of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum.

 

[Mandryka]

Palestrina is among the most influential composers of all time. His contrapuntal style was codified by Johann Fux, whose book Gradus ad Parnassum ("Steps to Paradise"), published in 1725, broke Palestrina's contrapuntal technique down into five types or "species" of counterpoint. Fux's work has been the bedrock of counterpoint pedagogy, making it among the most important and widest read books on music ever written. J. S. Bach held it in the highest esteem. According to Haydn's first biographer, his personal friend Georg August von Griesinger, "Haydn took infinite pains to assimilate the theory of Fux". Leopold Mozart instructed his son Wolfgang from his personal copy of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum and Mozart himself used the Gradus later in life when he himself taught. It became Beethoven's guide to composition and he used it in his own teaching as well. When Fux's tome was translated into French in 1833 and sold by subscription, the subscribers included Berlioz, Cherubini, Meyerbeer, Chopin, Rossini, Paganini, Ignaz Moscheles, Johann Nepomuk Hummel, and Liszt. Schubert, Brahms, and Bruckner all studied Palestrinan counterpoint using the original, Latin-language version of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum.

How do you know Bach held Fux in high esteem?

 

[SanAntone]

How do you know Bach held Fux in high esteem?

The Latin edition of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum from the year 1725 is the only surviving book of J.S. Bach's personal library of theoretical works.

More from the Bach cantatas website:

There are perhaps three important points of contact between Johann Joseph Fux and J.S. Bach which suggest that he was a source of influence on J.S. Bach's late style and that he was regarded by contemporary commentators as a composer (as well as a theorist) of comparable significance to J.S. Bach.

A letter from Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach to J.N. Forkel of January 19, 1775 attests to J.S. Bach's preference for actual music in the teaching of composition as against 'the dry species of counterpoint that are given in Fux and others', but the same letter places Fux at the head of those (contemporary) composers whom J.S. Bach most admired: J.J. Fux, Antonio Caldara, George Frideric Handel, Reinhard Keiser, Johann Adolf Hasse, Johann Gottlieb Graun and Johann Gottlieb Graun, Jan Dismas Zelenka (a pupil of J.J. Fux's), and Franz Benda.

In 1742 a German translation of Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum (Vienna, 1725) was published by J.S. Bach's pupil Lorenz Christoph Mizler. J.S. Bach knew the Latin original well and his personal copy has survived. As Christoph Wolff and Alfred Mann have shown, the Gradus stands behind J.S. Bach's preoccupation with stile antico counterpoint in his late works, but not as a primer of strict counterpoint: it is the aesthetic of Fux's stylistic continuity (as between stile antico and stile moderno) and Fux's own prowess as a composer (to which the longer excerpts in the Gradus bear witness) that influenced J.S. Bach's conception and reintegration of antico techniques.

F.W. Marpurg's Abhandlung von der Fuge (1753-1754) advanced J.S. Bach's compositional technique as the locus classicus of fugal counterpoint: this treatise implicitly recognised Fux's practice as an important precedent for the summation of fugal discourse which Marpurg discerned in The Art of Fugue (BWV 1080). In this respect Marpurg relies not only on the Gradus but also on Fux's actual compositions (as in his quotation of 'Christe eleison' from the Missa canonica). This usage deserves to be distinguished from the long afterlife which Fux's Gradus enjoyed both as a composition manual and as the source of various treatises based more or less directly upon it. Johann Mattheson remarked in Der vollkommene Capellmeister (1739) that the great fugal masters known to him were J.S. Bach, J.J. Fux, G.F. Handel, Johann Krieger (1652-1735), Johann Kuhnau, Johann Theile (1646-1724), Georg Philipp Telemann, and Johann Gottfried Walther. It is clear that Fux belonged to this distinguished gathering not as a theorist but as a composer, especially given J. Mattheson's favourable account of his choral writing and his chamber duet style. J.A. Scheibe likewise, in Der critische Musikus (1745), ranked J.J. Fux alongside J.S. Bach, G.F. Handel, G.P. Telemann, and others as a composer whose command of Italian style was combined with mathematical exactitude.

 

[Bwv 1080]

How do you know Bach held Fux in high esteem?

its why he had so many children <snare hit>