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A journey through classical music from medieval to contemporary

76K views 987 replies 35 participants last post by  pianozach 
#1 · (Edited)
Join me on a years journey through classical music from medieval to contemporary.

You may be a beginner who, like me a year ago, wants to discover and listen to music that is highly recommended in each period. You might be a fan of one composer, or a lover of one period, and be interested to discover more of other composers or other music. You might be an experienced listener who is interested to share your knowledge with others in an accessible way. Whatever your motivation, I hope you’ll find this thread to be of value.

We’ll spend time:

Q1
Week 1a: Early Music & Ars Antiqua inc. Hildegard von Bingen, PĂ©rotin & LĂ©onin
Week 1b: Composers born 1300-1399 inc. Machaut, Dufay & Dunstaple
Week 2: Composers born 1400-1466 inc. Josquin & Ockeghem
Week 3: Composers born 1467-1533 inc. Palestrina, Tallis & Lassus
Week 4: Composers born 1534-1567 inc. Monteverdi, Dowland & Byrd
Week 5: Composers born 1568-1599 inc. Allegri, SchĂĽtz & Praetorius
Week 6: Composers born 1600-1633 inc. Carissimi, Lully & Strozzi
Week 7: Composers born 1634-1666 inc. Purcell, Corelli & Biber
Week 8: Composers born 1667-1681 inc. Vivaldi, Couperin & Telemann
Week 9: Composers born 1681-1685 inc. Handel & Rameau
Week 10: Composers born 1685-1695 inc. JS Bach pre-Leipzig
Week 11: Composers born 1696-1699 inc. JS Bach in Leipzig
Week 12: Composers from the Baroque to Classical transition inc. Tartini, Scarlatti & CPE Bach
Week 13: Composers known primarily for opera born 1600-1799 inc. Rossini, Gluck & Donizetti

Q2
Week 14: Composers born 1700-1724 plus Haydn works 1760-1783
Week 15: Composers born 1725-1732 plus Haydn works 1784-1803
Week 16: Composers born 1733-1739 plus Mozart works 1772-1779
Week 17: Composers born 1740-1749 plus Mozart works 1780-1785
Week 18: Composers born 1750-1759 plus Mozart works 1786-1791
Week 19: Composers born 1760-1769 plus Beethoven works 1795-1805
Week 20: Composers born 1770-1783 plus Beethoven works 1806-1811
Week 21: Composers born 1784-1794 plus Beethoven works 1812-1827
Week 22: Composers born 1795-1799 inc. Schubert
Week 23: Composers born 1800-1809 inc. Berlioz & Mendelssohn
Week 24: Composers born 1810 inc. Chopin & Schumann
Week 25: Composers born 1811-1819 inc. Liszt
Week 26: Composers known primarily for opera born 1800-1840 inc. Verdi, Wagner & Bellini

Q3
Week 27: Composers born 1820-1832 inc. Smetana, Bruckner & Franck
Week 28: Composers born 1833 inc. Brahms
Week 29: Composers born 1834-1839 inc. Bizet, Bruch, Saint-Saëns plus "The Big Five"
Week 30: Composers born 1840-1843 exc. Dvořák inc. Tchaikovsky & Grieg
Week 31: Composers born 1844-1849 plus Dvořák inc. Fauré
Week 32: Composers born 1850-1859 inc. Elgar & Janáček
Week 33: Composers born 1860-1862 inc. Debussy & Mahler
Week 34: Composers born 1864-1865 inc. Sibelius, Strauss R & Nielsen
Week 35: Composers born 1866-1872 inc. Satie & Scriabin
Week 36: Composers associated with the English Pastoral School inc. Vaughan Williams
Week 37: Composers born 1873-1875 inc. Rachmaninov & Ravel
Week 38: Composers born 1876-1879 plus those associated with the Second Viennese School inc. Berg & Schoenberg
Week 39: Composers known primarily for opera born 1841-1939 inc. Puccini & Massenet

Q4
Week 40: Composers born 1880-1884 exc. Stravinsky inc. Bartók, Kodály & Varèse
Week 41: Composers born 1885-1889 plus Stravinsky inc. Villa-Lobos
Week 42: Composers born 1890-1891 inc. Prokofiev & MartinĹŻ
Week 43: Composers born 1892-1897 inc. Hindemith plus all of "Les Six"
Week 44: Composers born 1898-1902 inc. Gershwin, Copland & Walton
Week 45: Composers born 1903-1906 inc. Shostakovich & Khachaturian
Week 46: Composers born 1907-1910 inc. Barber, Messiaen & Carter
Week 47: Composers born 1911-1916 inc. Britten & Cage
Week 48: Composers born 1917-1925 inc. Bernstein, Berio, Ligeti & Boulez
Week 49: Composers born 1926-1933 inc. GĂłrecki, Penderecki & Stockhausen
Week 50: Composers born 1934-1939 inc. Reich, PĂĄrt & Glass
Week 51: Composers born 1940-present inc. Adams, Saariaho & Tavener
Week 52: Composers of film, musical and games music inc. Bernstein, Williams, Morricone & Zimmer

The journey begins on 1st January 2022. Join me for the full journey or link in when it suits your listening. I hope there’ll be plenty of discussion, and only ask that whatever you share remains positive and helpful to those with perhaps less experience and knowledge than you.
 
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#62 · (Edited)
Join me on a years journey through classical music from medieval to contemporary.

You may be a beginner who, like me a year ago, wants to discover and listen to music that is highly recommended in each period. You might be a fan of one composer, or a lover of one period, and be interested to discover more of other composers or other music. You might be an experienced listener who is interested to share your knowledge with others in an accessible way. Whatever your motivation, I hope you'll find this thread tio be of value.

We'll spend time:

• January - Medieval & Renaissance music
• February - Baroque
• March - Baroque
• April - Classical
• May - Classical
• June - Classical
• July - Early-Romantic
• August - Mid and Late Romantic
• September - Late and Post-Romantic
• October - Modern
• November - Modern
• December - Contemporary

For composers who are known for both standard works and opera, we'll cover their recommended operas as we go. For composers who are almost exlusively known for opera only, we'll group them into weeks 13, 26, 39 and 52.

The journey begins on 1st January 2022. Join me for the full journey or link in when it suits your listening. I hope there'll be plenty of discussion, and only ask that whatever you share remains positive and helpful to those with perhaps less experience and knowledge than you.
I do not intend any offense, but I am truly confused. May I ask, "what is the purpose of this thread?"

When I read your OP I was under the impression that we could offer our ideas about composers and recordings from the period under discussion. But what I've noticed since the beginning of the actual discussion, you seem to be working from some list of composers. And free recommendations appear to be unwelcome, since when I offered the Machaut Messe, you posted something about he Ars Nova to be discussed in the next week. A comment which confused me, since there had been no weekly list of topics.

Also, concerning the troubadours, I was about to post about my favorite collection fo recordings, which contain most, if not all, of the existing music available. But stopped when I saw your post talking about levels, and specific composers.

Where did these levels come from? And why are they important? These posts have cased me to wonder "what is the purpose for this thread?" IOW, do you have some end result in mind you are trying to achieve?
 
#64 · (Edited)
You're right. The thread is suffering as result of my lack of time on Saturday and the consequent rushed start to proceedings. My apologies. Let me clarify.

The prime purpose of this thread is to guide beginners to the best classical music to listen to. The thread is about the listener, no so much about the music - there are plenty of threads and resources for that and we can link to them. The thread may have a number of side-benefits. For example, there's a thread started today titled, "Where to start with Sibelius' symphonies?" As we cover each time period, this thread may help to answer that type of question.

You input is most welcome. I had neglected to clarify specifically that this week we're looking at early medieval and Ars Antiqua. Ars Nova comes next week. I smiled at your otherwise very helpful recommendation since I'd originally planned to cover both in one week, so it would have been the 'Work of the Week', but separated them at Mandryka 'suggestion' that we should spend a little more time in Medieval and Renaissance. I'm sorry if you thought I felt your suggestion was unwelcome. It was not.

So, where does the list come from and what are the, "Levels"? In researching for myself last year, I identified nearly forty sources of recommendations for classical listening. They include classical radio stations in the US, UK and Australia, publications like the Guardian and WSJ, academic resources, books and internet content including our own Talk Classical listings. I made a judgement on the quality and provenance of the recommendations, excluding those that I felt were not adequate.

My judgement is that the more reccommendations any individual work received, the more likely it is that it should be recommended to a beginner. In collating the data, I happened to group the works into seven categories or levels:

Level 1 - works that received 22 recommendations or more
Level 2 - works that received between 16 and 21 recommendations
Level 3 - 11-15 recommendations
Level 4 - 7-10 recommendations
Level 5 - 4-6 recommendations
Level 6 - 2-3 recommendations
Level 7 - 1 recommendation

There's no specific logic behind the seven levels. They just happened.

Each week I plan to share the list. In an ideal world where there are works at each level, that will be one post per day sharing each level as we progress through the week. After that we can do what we want with it. Let it just sit here. Discuss the works. Answer any questions someone asks. The thread will flourish or wither based on the interaction. I hope it flourishes.

Next week we'll cover Ars Nova and composers born before 1400. After that there'll be a week of Josquin and his contemporaries, then Byrd/Tallis/Lassus, then Monteverdi ....
 
#66 ·
May I add that I am thankful for the recommendation for specific recordings, and with the album art images posted, too! I don't necessarily enjoy the hunting and pecking around for the "right one" (though with the better known works of symphonies and operas, I do enjoy listening to different versions). Gratefully, all the records this week have all be available on Apple Music, which makes this a really accessible exercise.

Now, to finally get a hold on the troubadour music tradition that fantasy fiction, Verdi, Wagner, et al. were all referencing! :)
 
#72 · (Edited)
Four more pieces for today, highlighted in red below. Firstly some more LĂ©onin/PĂ©rotin. The Guido d'Arezzo story is cool. The Play of Daniel is one of my favourite early pieces. I thought it might be helpful to share the updated list list as we proceed.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
No works

Level 4
PĂ©rotin: Viderunt Omnes
Hildegard von Bingen: Symphonia Harmoniae Celestium Revelatorium
Hildegard von Bingen: Ordo Virtutum

Level 5
Adam de la Halle: La Jeu de Robin et de Marion
LĂ©onin: Magnus Liber Organi
PĂ©rotin: Sederunt Principes
Guido d'Arezzo: Ut Quent Laxis / Micrologus - Do-Re-Mi


Level 6
Anon. (Students at Beauvais Cathedral): Play of Daniel (Egerton Manuscript)
Bernart de Ventadorn: Can Vei La Lauzeta Mover
Walther von der Vogelweide: Palästinalied

Level 7
Marcabru: L'Autrier Jost'una Serbissa
Marcabru: Pax! In Nomine Domini
Raimon de Miraval: Ainsi Cum es Genser Pascors
Giraut de Bornelh: Reis Glorios
Walther von der Vogelweide: Unter der Linden
Audefroi le Bastart: Bele Y Doine
Neidhart von Reuental: Meienzit
Adam de la Halle: Bone Amourette
Adam de la Halle: Dieus Soit en Cheste Maison
Adam de la Halle: Fines Amouretes
Ernoul Caupain: Ler main pensis chevauchai

My listening for today:



LĂ©onin: Magnus Liber Organi

Paul Hilliard, Hilliard Ensemble



PĂ©rotin: Sederunt Principes

Tonus Peregrinus



Anon.: Play of Daniel

William Lyons, Dufay Collective
 
#74 · (Edited)
Six more pieces for today, highlighted in red below.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
No works

Level 4
PĂ©rotin: Viderunt Omnes
Hildegard von Bingen: Symphonia Harmoniae Celestium Revelatorium
Hildegard von Bingen: Ordo Virtutum

Level 5
Adam de la Halle: La Jeu de Robin et de Marion
LĂ©onin: Magnus Liber Organi
PĂ©rotin: Sederunt Principes
Guido d'Arezzo: Ut Quent Laxis / Micrologus - Do-Re-Mi

Level 6
Anon. (Students at Beauvais Cathedral): Play of Daniel (Egerton Manuscript)
Bernart de Ventadorn: Can Vei La Lauzeta Mover
John of Fornsete: Sumer is Icumen In
Anon.: Winchester Troper
PĂ©rotin: Beata Viscera

Walther von der Vogelweide: Palästinalied

Level 7
Anon.: Llibre Vermell de Montserrat
Yared: The Book of Zimare
Kassia of Byzantium: Ek Rizis Agathis

Marcabru: L'Autrier Jost'una Serbissa
Marcabru: Pax! In Nomine Domini
Raimon de Miraval: Ainsi Cum es Genser Pascors
Giraut de Bornelh: Reis Glorios
Walther von der Vogelweide: Unter der Linden
Audefroi le Bastart: Bele Y Doine
Neidhart von Reuental: Meienzit
Adam de la Halle: Bone Amourette
Adam de la Halle: Dieus Soit en Cheste Maison
Adam de la Halle: Fines Amouretes
Ernoul Caupain: Ler main pensis chevauchai

My listening for today:



Kassia of Byzantium: Ek Rizis Agathis (From a Good Root)

VocaMe



John of Fornsete: Sumer is Icumen In

Huelgas Ensemble



Anon.: Winchester Troper

Mary Berry, Schola Gregoriana Of Cambridge



Anon.: Llibre Vermell de Montserrat

Jordi Savall, Hespèrion XXI, La Capella Reial De Catalunya
 
#75 · (Edited)
The full listing for this week of early and Ars Antiqua works.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
No works

Level 4
PĂ©rotin: Viderunt Omnes
Hildegard von Bingen: Symphonia Harmoniae Celestium Revelatorium
Hildegard von Bingen: Ordo Virtutum

Level 5
Adam de la Halle: La Jeu de Robin et de Marion
LĂ©onin: Magnus Liber Organi
PĂ©rotin: Sederunt Principes
Guido d'Arezzo: Ut Quent Laxis / Micrologus - Do-Re-Mi

Level 6
Anon. (Students at Beauvais Cathedral): Play of Daniel (Egerton Manuscript)
Bernart de Ventadorn: Can Vei La Lauzeta Mover
John of Fornsete: Sumer is Icumen In
Anon.: Winchester Troper
PĂ©rotin: Beata Viscera
Walther von der Vogelweide: Palästinalied

Level 7
Anon.: Llibre Vermell de Montserrat
Beatriz, Comtessa de Dia: A Chantar M'er de So qu'eu No Volria
Anon.: Alle Psallite Cum Luya (Montpellier Codex)
Anon.: On parole, A Paris, Frese nouvele (Montpellier Codex)
Anon.: J'ai les maus d'amours - Que ferai (Montpellier Codex)
Anon.: Cunctipotens Genitor (Codex Calixtinus)
Yared: The Book of Zimare
Kassia of Byzantium: Ek Rizis Agathis
Tuotilo: An Easter Drama
Anon.: Quem Quaeritus in Sepulchro
Wipo of Burgundy: Victimae paschali laudes
Abelard, Peter: O Quanta Qualia
Abelard, Peter: Planchus Jacob Super Filios Suos
Adam of Saint-Victor: Lauda Sion Salvatorem / Lauda Crusis Attolamus
Anon.: Planctus Cigni
Marcabru: L'Autrier Jost'una Serbissa
Marcabru: Pax! In Nomine Domini
Raimon de Miraval: Ainsi Cum es Genser Pascors
Giraut de Bornelh: Reis Glorios
Walther von der Vogelweide: Unter der Linden
Audefroi le Bastart: Bele Y Doine
Neidhart von Reuental: Meienzit
Thibault I of Navarre: De Bone Amour Vient Séance Bonté
Anon.: Se J'ai Ame
Anon.: Thomas Gemma Cantuariae / Thomas Caesus in Doveria
Lorenzo de Firenze (Masini): A Poste Messe
Lorenzo de Firenze (Masini): Non So Qual I mi Voglia
Adam de la Halle: Bone Amourette
Adam de la Halle: Dieus Soit en Cheste Maison
Adam de la Halle: Fines Amouretes
Anon.: Tempus Adest Floridum "Good King Wenceslas"
Anon.: Se Je Chant
Anon.: Nordic Hymn Nobilis, Humilis "Saint Magnus Hymn"
Petrus de Cruce: Aucun ont Trouv'
Anon.: Jesu Cristes milde moder
Anon.: Angelus Domini (Chartres Fragment)
Anon.: Christ ist Erstanden
Anon.: Dicant Nunc Judei (Chartres Fragment)
Anon.: Easter Chants: Allleluia and Victimae Pascheli Laudes
Anon.: Ecce Sacerdos Magnus
Anon.: Edi beo thu hevene quene
Anon.: Epiphaniam domino canamus - Balaam inquit
Anon.: Hoquetus In Seculum
Anon.: L'Autre Jour (Bamburg Codex)
Anon.: Kyriale Mass IV: Cunctipotens Genitor Deus
Anon.: Kyriale Mass IX: Cum Jubilo
Anon.: Musicalis sciencia / Sciencie laudabili
Anon.: Te Joseph Celebrent
Anon.: Flos Regalis (Worcester Fragments)
Ernoul Caupain: Ler main pensis chevauchai

Ars Nova and the Burgundian School starting tomorrow. I wonder what could be 'Work of the Week'?
 
#76 · (Edited)
Week Two so soon! This week we'll delve into the Ars Nova, other composers born 1300-1399, and the Burgundian School.

Our 'Work of the Week' is no surprise:

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Guillaume de Machaut: Messe de Notre Dame

My preferred version is the same as SanAntone:



Machaut: Messe de Notre Dame

Andrew Parrott, Taverner Choir, Taverner Consort
 
#77 · (Edited)
Week Two so soon! This week we'll delve into the Ars Nova, other composers born 1300-1399, and the Burgundian School.

Our 'Work of the Week' is no surprise:

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Guillaume de Machaut: Messe de Notre Dame

My preferred version is the same as SanAntone:



While the mass is very good, it's not my favourite element of Machaut's music by a long chalk. That would have to be the motets or the songs
 
#82 · (Edited)
Fyi to OP and anyone else trying to get a handle on changes in western music through history - I became very interested in this topic and scoured the internet (i.e. published academic research available on the internet) for information -

All of these recordings NEED to be understood as 'creative reinterpretation' at best, regardless of what the liner notes may imply... there are HUGE largely-unanswerable questions about fundamental aspects of performance - singers' tone production (this means, the difference between opera voice, European folk voice, 'middle eastern singing' voice, Chinese opera voice, etc. - these norms are subjective and change dramatically over time), ornamentation (adding all kinds of extra notes, sliding between notes, etc.), use of instruments, tempo, rhythmic emphasis, etc...

Even today's performance style for Mozart is drastically different from the performance style that you hear on really old recordings from like 1910-20, so imagine hundreds more years of changing tastes (and without the impact of widely-available recordings keeping everybody more on the same page!).

Western notation started as a memory aid to help preserve a more complex oral tradition, nobody would've been expected to learn how to sing a piece just from looking at the notes.

Also, if you know the famous history of polyphony evolving out of monophony at Notre-Dame - it's actually becoming clear now that there was already an established tradition of improvised polyphony, which the Notre-Dame composers drew on. That's just one example of a little detail that suddenly upends the established image of the past on which many of these recordings are built.

Suffice to say it is MORE THAN LIKELY that the music of Perotinus or Leoninus etc. sounded, in its day, almost nothing like you hear on record, and, as a related point, it is an illusion that western music 'started simple and became more complex over time' - what IS true is that NOTATION became more complex and more important over time, and complexity was redistributed into forms visible in the notation (i.e. structural/'architectural' complexity gradually became more prominent)...

I would be happy to provide recommendations of the relatively few records which actually DO try to explore genuine variety of approaches to performance.

EDIT: to avoid getting into 'well, what is complexity, how do you measure it' - what I really mean is, it is an illusion that western music NECESSARILY 'started simple and became more complex over time' just because of increases in notational complexity - notation is not evidence enough. Also want to acknowledge that obviously 'almost nothing like you hear on record' is totally subjective, I don't want anyone saying 'well they got the notes right' (even there we have questions - look up 'musica ficta' - even into the 1500s it was standard for performers to add sharps and flats to the score DURING performance!)
 
#85 · (Edited)
Fyi to OP and anyone else trying to get a handle on changes in western music through history - I became very interested in this topic and scoured the internet (i.e. published academic research available on the internet) for information -

All of these recordings NEED to be understood as 'creative reinterpretation' at best, regardless of what the liner notes may imply... there are HUGE largely-unanswerable questions about fundamental aspects of performance - singers' tone production (this means, the difference between opera voice, European folk voice, 'middle eastern singing' voice, Chinese opera voice, etc. - these norms are subjective and change dramatically over time), ornamentation (adding all kinds of extra notes, sliding between notes, etc.), use of instruments, tempo, rhythmic emphasis, etc...

Even today's performance style for Mozart is drastically different from the performance style that you hear on really old recordings from like 1910-20, so imagine hundreds more years of changing tastes (and without the impact of widely-available recordings keeping everybody more on the same page!).

Western notation started as a memory aid to help preserve a more complex oral tradition, nobody would've been expected to learn how to sing a piece just from looking at the notes.

Also, if you know the famous history of polyphony evolving out of monophony at Notre-Dame - it's actually becoming clear now that there was already an established tradition of improvised polyphony, which the Notre-Dame composers drew on. That's just one example of a little detail that suddenly upends the established image of the past on which many of these recordings are built.

Suffice to say it is MORE THAN LIKELY that the music of Perotinus or Leoninus etc. sounded, in its day, almost nothing like you hear on record, and, as a related point, it is an illusion that western music 'started simple and became more complex over time' - what IS true is that NOTATION became more complex and more important over time, and complexity was redistributed into forms visible in the notation (i.e. structural/'architectural' complexity gradually became more prominent)...

I would be happy to provide recommendations of the relatively few records which actually DO try to explore genuine variety of approaches to performance.

EDIT: to avoid getting into 'well, what is complexity, how do you measure it' - what I really mean is, it is an illusion that western music NECESSARILY 'started simple and became more complex over time' just because of increases in notational complexity - notation is not evidence enough. Also want to acknowledge that obviously 'almost nothing like you hear on record' is totally subjective, I don't want anyone saying 'well they got the notes right' (even there we have questions - look up 'musica ficta' - even into the 1500s it was standard for performers to add sharps and flats to the score DURING performance!)
I appreciate what you y in this post, and the subject has been covered in depth by Richard Taruskin. But, the Early Music movement is well established and has many exponents all of whom do not share the same philosophy concerning authenticity.

For myself I think the idea of authenticity is a red herring.

I am happy for the plethora of recordings of music from earlier epochs and have my favored groups and recordings, and that is enough. In my own mind I have found the kind of "authentic" performances I think are supported by good scholarship and sound stylistic footing, and go with those.
 
#88 · (Edited)
Chant sur le livre is something that Peres explored in his Auxerre CD -- well worth hearing if you don't know it. This is from the booklet essay he wrote

The polyphonic pieces recorded here are realizations of "chanting by the book" carried out according to the faux-bourdon techniques in use at the period. To this very day we still find an example of it in the polyphonic vocal musk of Corsica. In the course of our studies of chanting by the book, the analysis of the style of the linking of chords in the Corsican tradition permitted us to emphasize an "oral style" in the manner offorming the harmonies around a main chant. The present stage of our reflection on the question may be defined as a reading of the documents of the period in the light of the Corsican polyphonic tradition.
His recording of chants from Benevento is also not without interest in this respect, lots of drone.
 
#89 ·
Chant sur le livre is something that Peres explored in his Auxerre CD -- well worth hearing if you don't know it. This is from the booklet essay he wrote
There seems to be no end to the obscure recordings released by that man. I hadn't seen this one mentioned anywhere but it's an interesting listen. I'd love to hear more takes on chant sur la livre. Graindelavoix seems like a great candidate for example.
 
#91 · (Edited)
Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Guillaume de Machaut: Messe de Notre Dame

Level 4
Dufay, Guillaume: Missa l'Homme Armé
Guillaume de Machaut: Douce Dame Jolie

Level 5
Dunstaple, John: Quam Pulchra Es
Dufay, Guillaume: Missa Se La Face Ay Pale
Dufay, Guillaume: Nuper rosarum flores
Landini, Francesco: Ballades inc. Ecco la primavera, Non Ara Ma' Pieta, Sì dolce non sonò chol lir' Orfeo

Dufay, Guillaume: Secular Songs inc. Adieu ces bons vins de Lannoys, Se La Face Ay Pale, Craindre Vous Vueil, HĂ©las Mon Deuil, a ce Coup- Sui Je Mort, Ce Jour de l'An, Je Languis en Piteux Martire
Guillaume de Machaut: Ma fin est mon commencement


My listening today:



Dufay: Secular Songs (Selected)

The Medieval Ensemble Of London, Peter Davies, Timothy Davies
 
#94 ·
Skipping straight to Dunstable past the Ars Subtilior?

Ars subtilior (Latin for 'subtler art') is a musical style characterized by rhythmic and notational complexity, centered on Paris, Avignon in southern France, and also in northern Spain at the end of the fourteenth century.[1] The style also is found in the French Cypriot repertory. Often the term is used in contrast with ars nova, which applies to the musical style of the preceding period from about 1310 to about 1370; though some scholars prefer to consider ars subtilior a subcategory of the earlier style. Primary sources for ars subtilior are the Chantilly Codex, the Modena Codex (Mod A M 5.24), and the Turin Manuscript



Where else are you going to find songs about dope smoking?



Fumeux fume par fumee, The smoker smokes smoke,

Fumeuse speculacion. A smoky speculation.

Qu'antre fummet sa pensee, While others smoke in thought,

Fumeux fume par fumee. The smoker smokes smoke.

Quar fumer molt il agree For the smoke pleases him greatly

Tant qu'il ait son entencion. As he meditates.

Fumeux fume par fumee, The smoker smokes smoke,

Fumeuse speculacion. A smoky speculation.
 
#98 ·
Another important composer that was left out by OP - Philippe de Vitry (31 October 1291 - 9 June 1361) was a French composer, music theorist and poet. He was an accomplished, innovative, and influential composer, and may also have been the author of the Ars Nova treatise. He was widely acknowledged as the greatest musician of his day, with Petrarch writing a glowing tribute, calling him: "... the keenest and most ardent seeker of truth, so great a philosopher of our age."

 
#111 ·
Another important composer that was left out by OP - Philippe de Vitry...
Is it Philippe de Vitry you want? I aim to please.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Guillaume de Machaut: Messe de Notre Dame

Level 4
Dufay, Guillaume: Missa l'Homme Armé
Guillaume de Machaut: Douce Dame Jolie

Level 5
Dunstaple, John: Quam Pulchra Es
Dufay, Guillaume: Missa Se La Face Ay Pale
Dufay, Guillaume: Nuper rosarum flores
Landini, Francesco: Ballades inc. Ecco la primavera, Non Ara Ma' Pieta, Sì dolce non sonò chol lir' Orfeo
Dufay, Guillaume: Secular Songs inc. Adieu ces bons vins de Lannoys, Se La Face Ay Pale, Craindre Vous Vueil, HĂ©las Mon Deuil, a ce Coup- Sui Je Mort, Ce Jour de l'An, Je Languis en Piteux Martire
Guillaume de Machaut: Ma fin est mon commencement

Level 6
Guillaume de Machaut: Le Remède de Fortune
Dunstaple, John: Veni Sancte Spritus
Dufay, Guillaume: Ave Regina Coelorum
Power, Leonel: Missa Alma Redemptoris Mater
Philippe de Vitry: Motets inc. Impudenter circumivi / Virtutibus
Seuse, Heinrich: In Dulce Jubilo
Guillaume de Machaut: Le Livre du Voir Dit
Dufay, Guillaume: Missa Ave Regina Coelorum
Philippe de Vitry: Roman de Fauvel Motets
Guillaume de Machaut: Felix Virgo / Inviolata / Ad Te Suspiramus
Oswald von Wolkenstein: Es Fuegt Sich
Dunstaple, John: Gloria in Canon
Dufay, Guillaume: Supremum est Mortalibus Bonum
Busnoys, Antoine: In Hydraulis
Busnoys, Antoine: Missa l'Homme Armé


My listening today:



Dunstaple: Veni Sancte Spiritus
Power Missa Alma Redemptoris Mater

Hilliard Ensemble



Guillaume de Machaut: Remede de Fortune

Ensemble Ars Nova Project



Guillaume de Machaut: Le Livre du Voir Dit

Orlando Consort



Philippe de Vitry: Le Roman de Fauvel

Joel Cohen



Philippe de Vitry: Motets

Orlando Consort
 
#102 · (Edited)
The context of this discussion is whether Perotin drew on an established polyphonic tradition. I mean obviously he did because he was extremely familiar with two part polyphony, but the idea is that the sort of complexity of three part music was already familiar, maybe not notated.

Well, given that, I think that it's a bit of a non sequitur to mention something in Africa or China. I would like some examples in good old Europa please.

I'm sure Perotin was aware of polyphony by the way. Everyone who's taken a walk in the woods in Spring and bothered to listen to the birds is aware of polyphony. The question is whether he already understood three part polyphony as music before writing down some of it himself, and in doing so making some church hit songs.
 
#103 ·
The context of this discussion is whether Perotin drew on an established polyphonic tradition. I mean obviously he did because he was extremely familiar with two part polyphony, but the idea is that the sort of complexity of three part music was already familiar, maybe not notated.

I'm sure Perotin was aware of polyphony by the way. Everyone who's taken a walk in the woods in Spring and bothered to listen to the birds is aware of polyphony. The question is whether he already understood three part polyphony as music before writing down some of it himself, and in doing so making some church hit songs.
It is a natural evolution from two part polyphony to adding third and fourth parts. I wouldn't read too much into it. It has been assumed that PĂ©rotin pioneered the styles of organum triplum and organum quadruplum - since his are the only surviving examples. But it does not stand to reason that he was alone in this.

And it need not have been improvised, although it makes no difference even if it was - the style was eventually codified in the Magnus Liber Organi which PĂ©rotin officially revised.

Much of this work was making more concise, shortening sections, in the wake of Leonin's duplum. This second part had to be sung fast, consisting sometimes in as many as 40 notes to a single syllable of text caused the meaning to become lost. PĂ©rotin often added a third voice to these revised pieces. (Roesner, Edward (2001a). "Perotinus [Perrotinus, Perotinus Magnus, Magister Perotinus, PĂ©rotin]". Grove Music Online)

"Two styles emerged from the organum duplum, the "florid" and "discant" (discantus). The former was more typical of LĂ©onin, the latter of PĂ©rotin, though this indirect attribution has been challenged. Anonymous IV described LĂ©onin as optimus organista (the best composer of organa) but PĂ©rotin, who revised the former's Magnus Liber Organi (Great Organum Book), as optimus discantor referring to his discant composition. In the original discant organum duplum, the second voice follows the cantus firmus, note on note but at an interval, usually a fourth above. By contrast, in the florid organum, the upper or vox organalis voice wove shorter notes around the longer notes of the lower tenor chant." (Berger, Anna Maria Busse (2005). Medieval Music and the Art of Memory; Vellard, Dominique (1986). Ecole de Notre-Dame de Paris 1163-1245: Monodies et polyphones vocales (Liner notes) (CD); Planchart, Alejandro Enrique (2000). Organum. pp. 23-51.)
 
#123 ·
I don't understand the need for anyone to have some regiment in order to enjoy music. Pretty ludicrous actually. So, no, I definitely won't be joining you or anyone else in any kind of planned listening schedule. I prefer to listen at my own leisure, not someone else's.
 
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#124 · (Edited)
Lots of people need orientation, they want to classify and rate things so that they can reassure themselves that they're on the "right" track. It's something I've felt myself sometimes in very recent music, because, basically, there are a lot of composers, a lot of music, and no trustable authoritative signposts. I've learned not to be bothered by it, to relish the absence of a canon, a list, but it was/is a hurdle to overcome.

For most people, classical music is easy -- you just listen to the stuff the radio broadcasts and the streaming companies promote and the teachers in school tell you that you need to know about to get through the test. Music is a consumer product and you allow yourself to be swayed by capitalist forces.
 
#126 · (Edited)
... Join me for the full journey or link in when it suits your listening. I hope there'll be plenty of discussion, and only ask that whatever you share remains positive and helpful to those with perhaps less experience and knowledge than you.
I don't understand the need for anyone to have some regiment in order to enjoy music. Pretty ludicrous actually. So, no, I definitely won't be joining you or anyone else in any kind of planned listening schedule. I prefer to listen at my own leisure, not someone else's.
Good. Then. ............
 
#138 · (Edited)
So, rather than let the thread sit doing nothing other than attracting detractors for a couple of days, let's press on. Composers born 1400-1499 excluding those already covered under the Burgundian School.

Level 1
No works

Level 2
No works

Level 3
Josquin des Prez - Missa Pange Lingua

My listening today:



Josquin: Missa Pange Lingua

Peter Phillips & The Tallis Scholars
 
#139 ·
There is a thread called For Love of Early Music which is a general thread for discussing this long period of music. There are similar threads for each period of music history.

I gather this thread has a specific purpose something like a monthly survey of the entire history of music by considering some works as representing each period as decided by one person.

Okay.
 
#141 ·
I think I linked to that excellent thread earlier. The idea is not to replace or compete with that or other great threads, but to serve as a resource for new listeners.

The music wasn't decided by one person. Yes, I decided which sources to use, but not the works themselves. The works shown in this thread are the result of surveying nearly forty sources of recommendations including classical radio stations in the US, UK and Australia, books by Swafford and others, academic sources, publications from the US and UK, and internet sources such as our own Talk Classical listings.

For clarity, works listed at:

Level 1 received more than 22 recommendations
Level 2 between 16 and 21 recommendations
Level 3 between 10 and 15 recommendations
Level 4 between 7 and 10 recommendations
Level 5 between 4 and 6 recommendations
Level 6 either 2 or 3 recommendations
Level 7 only 1 recommendation
 
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