[hammeredklavier]

Those of us who have criticized her music and/or views do so because she is stuck in the past - period.

We're all stuck in the past —listen to outdated music from the past, deluding ourselves it's timeless.

 

[Aries]

Those of us who have criticized her music and/or views do so because she is stuck in the past - period.

So the music of the past is bad? Classical music is bad? Or is it just that todays composers should write in a specific new styles? The constriction of classical music to modern~avant-garde~post modern styles, this is what is really horrible.

 

[Bulldog]

So the music of the past is bad?

I love music of the past as much as anyone else here on TC, but listening to it is very different from creating it as if you were living in the past. Also, Alma doesn't even do a good job of it.

 

[HansZimmer]

This piece of music is not to my liking. Let´s just say that. I even heard quite a few "rookie mistakes" in the first minutes I was able to listen to it. Studying a bit more Mozart or Mendelssohn would make sure there´d be none of that.

Errors in the execution or in the composition? If you are speaking about the second one, I don't understand how there can be objective errors in composition, as it is art and not science.

 

[HansZimmer]

I wouldn't underestimate Andre Rieu, who has some good tunes to his credit, even though he usually plays old music. He's also played music by other composers of today. In any case, I like his music and also that of some others along similar lines (e.g. Mantovani) but I don't like Alma Deutscher's music.

In any case, I think she's got higher aspirations than offering light music. A tighter comparison would be with composers of serious music who composed pastiche (or what's derisively known as rehash) such as those following the neo-classical trend prevalent in the first half of the 20th century. I'm not one to rain on people's parades, so I'll leave it to others here to make those sorts of comparisons if they want to.

A pastiche in my mind is a work which shamelessly imitates the style of an other composer, at the point that people are induced to think that the piece has been composed by the other composer.

The piece here below, composed for the film "Il Paziente Inglese", is an example of a pastiche. Many users in the comment section say that it's a piece of Bach, but in reality it has been written by the composer of the score.

Now, if the "Violin Concerto in G minor" of Alma Deutscher is a pastiche, for me it means that you are induced to think that it has been composed by an other famous composer. Who is that composer, according to you?
If what you mean is that she takes a generic inspiration from a style of music (classical-romantic period?), it doesn't make sense to call the work "a pastiche", otherwise we should conclude that even Mozart wrote pastiches, as he's music was based on a determined style (unless someone doesn't want to support the idea that there are not common denominators between Mozart's music and the one of the other composers). This is a reflection that I've already done with @YusufeVirdayyLmao.

 

[HansZimmer]

I love music of the past as much as anyone else here on TC, but listening to it is very different from creating it as if you were living in the past. Also, Alma doesn't even do a good job of it.

Has the music of the classical-romantic period ever died? Someone wishes that it dies, but no, it has never died, considering that classicism and romanticism are still inspiring a lot of soundtracks of films and videogames with high sales.

If it's still alive, it means that it's not music of the past. Not only Alma Deutscher is composing music in a style that is still alive, but in a style that is still more alive between the masses than the avant-garde stuff.
Not to mention the fact that determined techniques of the classical period like for example tonality are still the norm in modern popular music.

Given the fact that the music of Alma Deutscher is based on melody, harmony and tonality like the popular music of today, it represents the musical culture of our time much more than the avant-garde music.

 

[Waehnen]

Errors in the execution or in the composition? If you are speaking about the second one, I don't understand how there can be objective errors in composition, as it is art and not science.

Her style brought to my mind classicism and early romanticism, Mozart and Mendelssohn. So whenever there is place where the new piece falls short of the great models, I cannot help but notice. That is one of the shortcomings of the choices she has made.

Of course, philosophically speaking from a certain ontological viewpoint, there can be no errors in a piece of art. But we all know it does not work like that, as black and white. Of course we need to talk about art and evaluate it. It is for the benefit of the community and art.

 

[PeterKC]

But, how do you define avant-garde? Examples?

Has the music of the classical-romantic period ever died? Someone wishes that it dies, but no, it's never died, considering that classicism and romanticism are still inspiring a lot of soundtracks of films and videogames with high sales.

If it's still alive, it means that it's not music of the past. Not only Alma Deutscher is composing music in a style that it's still alive, but in a style that it's still more alive between the masses than the avant-garde stuff.
Not to mention the fact that determined techniques of the classical period like for example tonality are still the norm in modern popular music.

Given the fact that the music of Alma Deutscher is based on melody, harmony and tonality like the popular music of today, it represents the musical culture of our time much more than the avant-garde music.

 

[HansZimmer]

Her style brought to my mind classicism and early romanticism, Mozart and Mendelssohn. So whenever there is place where the new piece falls short of the great models, I cannot help but notice. That is one of the shortcomings of the choices she has made.

Of course, philosophically speaking from a certain ontological viewpoint, there can be no errors in a piece of art. But we all know it does not work like that, as black and white. Of course we need to talk about art and evaluate it. It is for the benefit of the community and art.

I don't agree, because IMO the neoclassical/neoromantique composers should put their own interpretation and fingerprints in their music, not copying the works of the masters. In other words, neoclassical/neoromantique music is not supposed to sound exactly like classical/romantique music, but like a renewed version of it.
What I like of this violin concerto is that it sounds like fresh air but inside of a traditional aesthetic. If it sounded like the violin concertos of Mozart, it wouldn't be original and she would put herself in the shadow of the austrian composer.

 

[Waehnen]

I don't agree, because IMO the neoclassical/neoromantique composers should put their own interpretation and fingerprints in their music, not copying the works of the masters. In other words, neoclassical/neoromantique music is not supposed to sound exactly like classical/romantique music, but a renewed version of it.
What I like of this violin concerto is that it sounds like fresh air but inside of a traditional aesthetic. If it sounded like the violin concertos of Mozart, it wouldn't be original and she would put herself in the shadow of the austrian composer.

For me it is obvious it falls short of her models and for me there is nothing fresh or new. So I will not talk philosophically about this piece any further. For me it is not good enough a piece.

 

[HansZimmer]

For me it is obvious it falls short of her models and for me there is nothing fresh or new. So I will not talk philosophically about this piece any further. For me it is not good enough a piece.

Degustibus non est disputandum.

 

[HansZimmer]

But, how do you define avant-garde? Examples?

Someone gave me a good example in the last days. In few words, avant-garde music breaks so much the rules of classical music that has actually little to nothing to do with it.

On the other hand, someone who doesn't know so much about classical music can still guess that this piece belongs to the tradition, so it's not avant-garde music, but classical music written in a modern style.

 

[PeterKC]

Someone gave me a good example in the last days. In few words, avant-garde music breaks so much the rules of classical music that has actually little to nothing to do with it.

I think I would agree with that somewhat. There are a lot of pretenders out there.

 

[Waehnen]

Degustibus non est disputandum.

Yes, if someone is able go get kicks out of this concerto, that is a wonderful thing! I have nothing against that, of course. But on this thread opinions were asked for, so I briefly just gave mine.

 

[eljr]

Alma is a product of her father

Are not most kids in all fields of endeavors?
I don't see how this matters.

Peace

 

[eljr]

Many people here just belittle the youth works of Alma Deutscher, and this may be similar to how female composers were belittled in the 19th century.

Indeed. It seems clear this young girl receives unfair criticism for none musical reasons which are then cloaked as professional short comings.
A rather sad commentary on those throwing stone in my opinion.
More of the famious classical music arrogance the genre is so famious for.

Anyway, that's my observation.

Peace

 

[Waehnen]

Indeed. It seems clear this young girl receives unfair criticism for none musical reasons which are then cloaked as professional short comings.
A rather sad commentary on those throwing stone in my opinion.
More of the famious classical music arrogance the genre is so famious for.

Anyway, that's my observation.

Peace

Sincerely not liking a certain piece of music should not be a reason for negative characterization of the person, right? ☺

 

[eljr]

Sincerely not liking a certain piece of music should not be a reason for negative characterization of the person, right? ☺

Frankly, I don't believe for a second that the criticism is over the music. (although they may believe it is)

I have no doubt if this same music was a rediscover piece from another period it would be received completely different. Something by a now dead white haired man would certainly improve the sound.

Some of these posts are so obvious.

 

[Bulldog]

Has the music of the classical-romantic period ever died? Someone wishes that it dies, but no, it's never died, considering that classicism and romanticism are still inspiring a lot of soundtracks of films and videogames with high sales.

If it's still alive, it means that it's not music of the past.

You're all mixed-up. Music of the past is simply music composed in the past. Of course, classical music of the past is still alive because it is played and listened to by 21st century humans.

 

[Sid James]

A pastiche in my mind is a work which shamelessly imitates the style of an other composer, at the point that people are induced to think that the piece has been composed by the other composer.

The piece here below, composed for the film "Il Paziente Inglese", is an example of a pastiche. Many users in the comment section say that it's a piece of Bach, but in reality it has been written by the composer of the score.

Now, if the "Violin Concerto in G minor" of Alma Deutscher is a pastiche, for me it means that you are induced to think that it has been composed by an other famous composer. Who is that composer, according to you?
If what you mean is that she takes a generic inspiration from a style of music (classical-romantic period?), it doesn't make sense to call the work "a pastiche", otherwise we should conclude that even Mozart wrote pastiches, as he's music was based on a determined style (unless someone doesn't want to support the idea that there are not common denominators between Mozart's music and the one of the other composers). This is a reflection that I've already done with @YusufeVirdayyLmao.

I don't see any need to distinguish between pastiche that is specific or general. There's nothing wrong with pastiche, and there are a few fine works which have been labelled as such. Rodrigo's Fantasía para un gentilhombre is considered by some to be his best piece, and it's an arrangement of tunes by an obscure Baroque composer. Respighi composed quite a few of these sorts of pieces. There's also Warlock's Capriol Suite, and even before the 20th century you get composers labelling pieces as pastiche (such as Schubert's Overture in the Italian Style).

There's nothing wrong with composing in a derivative style. I think what grates quite a few people is Deutscher's divisive and honestly, very simplistic, approach to matters of artistic expression. I'm avoiding making further comments on her ideology or her music because, as I said, I'm not here to rain on people's parades.

There's been enough division around her on this forum, even a cult of hate. In any case, when I did put forth my opinions on her in a balanced way, there where attempts to draw me in to this ongoing war around her with the usual internet tactics (fallacies galore). I have no intention to do that again, also I'd rather discuss music that I like or at least appreciate in some way.