[PeterKC]

I don't see any need to distinguish between pastiche that is specific or general. There's nothing wrong with pastiche, and there are a few fine works which have been labelled as such. Rodrigo's Fantasía para un gentilhombre is considered by some to be his best piece, and it's an arrangement of tunes by an obscure Baroque composer. Respighi composed quite a few of these sorts of pieces. There's also Warlock's Capriol Suite, and even before the 20th century you get composers labelling pieces as pastiche (such as Schubert's Overture in the Italian Style).

There's nothing wrong with composing in a derivative style. I think what grates quite a few people is Deutscher's divisive and honestly, very simplistic, approach to matters of artistic expression. I'm avoiding making further comments on her ideology or her music because, as I said, I'm not here to rain on people's parades.

There's been enough division around her on this forum, even a cult of hate. In any case, when I did put forth my opinions on her in a balanced way, there where attempts to draw me in to this ongoing war around her with the usual internet tactics (fallacies galore). I have no intention to do that again, also I'd rather discuss music that I like or at least appreciate in some way.

Cult of hate?-You cannot be serious.?

 

[Aries]

You're all mixed-up. Music of the past is simply music composed in the past. Of course, classical music of the past is still alive because it is played and listened to by 21st century humans.

But is classical and romantic music still alive in the sense that it is still composed? In the case of romantic music, yes, it was always composed until now. In the case of Classical music, I am not so sure if there is a continuity. It was still composed in the 1850s but I don't know about the 1890s for example. And even Deutscher today might be more romantic than Classical.

 

[Neo Romanza]

Frankly, I don't believe for a second that the criticism is over the music. (although they may believe it is)

I have no doubt if this same music was a rediscover piece from another period it would be received completely different. Something by a now dead white haired man would certainly improve the sound.

Some of these posts are so obvious.

Wrong. I'd still have a negative reaction to it whether it was composed by a white haired man or an orangutan. Alma Deutscher is stuck in the past and has yet to accept the present. The reality is she's a good musician, but a lousy composer. With any luck, she'll drop this whole Classical Era charade and compose music that speaks of the heart and mind with a musical language that is her own. But in order for this to happen, she needs to keep her mouth shut, get more life experience and, most of all, be open enough to be influenced by the innovations that have happened since Mozart, Beethoven et. al. This will be the only way I'd ever take her seriously, but I'm not going to hold my breath, because right now, she seems pretty adamant in believing what she's doing is worth someone else's time and attention.

 

[Captainnumber36]

How do you rate this piece? Write everything you want about it.

She had me engaged the entire work, a lot more than I can say for even some more popular (classic) composers. It has a beautiful innocence to it that I hear in early Mozart. I can only hope society doesn't beat that out of her. I think it's brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Good for her!

 

[Captainnumber36]

This thread lead me to take a listen to one of this composers albums on Spotify and boy am I in love. I love her melodies, and effortless structures.

Absolute genius!

 

[teamsereinig]

So the music of the past is bad? Classical music is bad? Or is it just that todays composers should write in a specific new styles? The constriction of classical music to modern~avant-garde~post modern styles, this is what is really horrible.

Quite right...

 

[HansZimmer]

Indeed. It seems clear this young girl receives unfair criticism for none musical reasons which are then cloaked as professional short comings.
A rather sad commentary on those throwing stone in my opinion.
More of the famious classical music arrogance the genre is so famious for.

Anyway, that's my observation.

Peace

I think it's wrong to say that the arrogance is a specific attitude of the classical music listeners. In the popular music the situation is even worse. See for example Justin Bieber: he has received a lot of hate for non musical reasons, despite the fact that in his case there would be musical reasons to hate him, as for example the fact the he uses playback tracks in live concerts (as many pop stars).

If anything, the question is an other one. The stereotype according to which the listeners of classical music are smarter is false, so in the public of classical music you can see the same kind of attitudes that you also see in popular music.

Finally, many people say the listeners of classical music are arrogant because they say that classical music is superior, but the same attitude can be extensively observed between the rock listeners, which think that rock music is superior and that pop music is inferior.

 

[HansZimmer]

I think a lot of the criticism leveled at Deutscher has more to do with tall poppy syndrome than it is a reaction to the music.

Usually I can predict quite well the results of the polls.
If it's a minor work of classical music and the melodies are nice to my ears, the results of the poll will be heterogeneous, with only a few votes in "horrible".

In three occasions I have failed to predict the results according to the quality of the music perceived by my ears:

• The first time, it was music originally composed for a videogame.
• The second time, it was Palladio, whose theme of the first movement has been originally composed for a TV spot and whose author works in the industry of advertising.
• The third time, it's this one. In this case there are other controversies, that we will discuss here below.

In each case, I analyzed the reasons of the results of the poll and someone told me that I shouldn't accuse the voters, but the reality is that the results of similar polls become predictable (namely, there will be many "horrible" votes) once you know which are the parameters that create controversies between the listeners of classical music. It would be silly to pretend that the controversial parameters don't exist.
In few words, without the controversial parameters the results of the polls would be different.


That said, I think that some users who have voted horrible really think that the music is horrible (there are always at least one or two "horrible" votes), maybe some others are linked to the "tall poppy syndrome", but let me explain what is the main controversy in this case.
There is a thing in classical music which I call "the modernist gang", which has arbirtrarily decided that romantic music has died and that the present and the future of classical music is the kind of modern music that they like.
So, a large part of the "horrible" votes we see are not caused by the fact that the melodies are horrible. They are "political" votes from persons who want to launch the signal that this kind of music MUST NOT be composed today.
Doesn't matter how much you are technically trained and how much melodic invention you have: if you don't obey to the religion of the modernist gang, you will be destroyed.

 

[Sid James]

Cult of hate?-You cannot be serious.?

I'm saying that in terms of how she's become an object which is either attacked or defended, both sides having hatred for the other. Keep in mind, this is the internet, where attack or defence of something doesn't amount to much since its able to function perfectly well out there in the real world, with or without our support here. What it definitely does is inflame a situation which would be best left ignored, so that the fire could go out by itself.

 

[PeterKC]

Hatred is a rather extreme word in analysis of this topic. After all this is a discussion forum. I find most of the comments entertaining.

 

[Aries]

Hatred is a rather extreme word in analysis of this topic. After ball this is a discussion forum. I find most of the comments entertaining.

In an other thread I saw this comment:

For me film music is more likely to be classical music when the film's aspirations are closer to art and timelessness. Most film music mentioned in this thread (along with the embarrassing music of Alma Deutscher) does not IMO meet this test.

Is it hate? Maybe, at least it is not a absurd assumption that it is hate.

If it is just very serious assessment, well, then I find it a bit embarressing to find the music of a little girl embarressing.

Imaging some little girls in the age of five paint some pictures, and their parents would say "that's embarrassing, shame on you!". Poor girls lol. Compared to some random girl-pictures Almas music is already great art.

 

[PeterKC]

A lot of people love canned pasta too. Goes down easy.

 

[Enthusiast]

Is it hate? Maybe, at least it is not a absurd assumption that it is hate.

If it is just very serious assessment, well, then I find it a bit embarressing to find the music of a little girl embarressing.

Imaging some little girls in the age of five paint some pictures, and their parents would say "that's embarrassing, shame on you!". Poor girls lol. Compared to some random girl-pictures Almas music is already great art.

Hate? You lost me, there. I certainly hate the circus that has grown up around her - including your own contribution to that.

The music is not embarrassing because she is a little girl. It's embarrassing because so much fuss is made over it. By all means praise her within the family and put the picture she painted on the fridge door. But the music might be embarrassing for those who take it seriously (I would certainly be embarrassed if I was one of them). It is also potentially embarrassing for the little girl when she is grown up and looks back at the claims that people were making for her (and with her willing participation). I suppose she has a future as her day's Andre Rieu which to me would be a waste of what is evidently a talent.

 

[Enthusiast]

A lot of people love canned pasta too. Goes down easy.

Thanks for that nauseating image. I fear it would "come up" easily as well.

 

[PeterKC]

We certainly may not need artists of any kind now that we have Chat Gpt.

 

[Aries]

Hate? You lost me, there. I certainly hate the circus that has grown up around her - including your own contribution to that.

The music is not embarrassing because she is a little girl. It's embarrassing because so much fuss is made over it.

I think I also don't like the fuss and circus around her. She is not that special. She is a legitimate and promising composer but she has still to prove a lot. I also think that the child prodigy Mozart is a bit overhyped. Do people have a child prodigy fetish, maybe?

But the music might be embarrassing for those who take it seriously (I would certainly be embarrassed if I was one of them).

It is not my prefer style of music. It is like Mendelssohn, and I don't care much for Mendelssohn. But I can enjoy her music and I can take it seriously, why not? She should compose late romantic music imo. What is interssting about her is that we don't know yet what she will do in the future. The history of dead composers is already written on the other hand.

It is also potentially embarrassing for the little girl when she is grown up and looks back at the claims that people were making for her (and with her willing participation). I suppose she has a future as her day's Andre Rieu which to me would be a waste of what is evidently a talent.

If she ends up as Andre Rieu successor this would be unfortunate.

 

[PeterKC]

I think I also don't like the fuss and circus around her. She is not that special. She is a legitimate and promising composer but she has still to prove a lot. I also think that the child prodigy Mozart is a bit overhyped. Do people have a child prodigy fetish, maybe?


It is not my prefer style of music. It is like Mendelssohn, and I don't care much for Mendelssohn. But I can enjoy her music and I can take it seriously, why not? She should compose late romantic music imo. What is interssting about her is that we don't know yet what she will do in the future. The history of dead composers is already written on the other hand.


If she ends up as Andre Rieu successor this would be unfortunate.

There will always be room for her in Branson.

 

[Neo Romanza]

This thread lead me to take a listen to one of this composers albums on Spotify and boy am I in love. I love her melodies, and effortless structures.

Absolute genius!

I'm going to take your praise of composers with a grain of salt from this point forward.

 

[Neo Romanza]

It is not my prefer style of music. It is like Mendelssohn, and I don't care much for Mendelssohn.

No, her music is nothing like Mendelssohn's. With Mendelssohn's music, there's ingenuity within the compositional writing and there's a fantastical element to his music that I find wholly original. Deutscher sounds more like a Classical Era clone and poorly conceived one at that. It's actually surprising you'd even make this kind of comparison, especially when you make the assertion: "I don't care much for Mendelssohn." If you don't care much for his music, then this means you actually haven't gotten inside of it and you're only listening from the outside, which doesn't actually give you much leverage when you make the claim that Deutscher's music "is like Mendelssohn's."

 

[Aries]

No, her music is nothing like Mendelssohn's. With Mendelssohn's music, there's ingenuity within the compositional writing and there's a fantastical element to his music that I find wholly original. Deutscher sounds more like a Classical Era clone and poorly conceived one at that. It's actually surprising you'd even make this kind of comparison, especially when you make the assertion: "I don't care much for Mendelssohn." If you don't care much for his music, then this means you actually haven't gotten inside of it and you're only listening from the outside, which doesn't actually give you much leverage when you make the claim that Deutscher's music "is like Mendelssohn."

Yes, I probably did not get inside the music of Mendelssohn. It was never attrackted by him that much to hear his music really intensive. I think Mendelssohn is better than Deutscher, but it appears to me that she was influenced by him. Her music has a romantic touch it is not really like Mozart imo. But I probably also did not really get inside the music of Deutscher yet. And I think there is more interessting music for me out there.

.