Hi, Ralph -

Welcome to TC!

I think that you've got this covered pretty well - I can't think of any that you're missing.

But I'm curious - which are your favorites? For me, it's Krivine for Beethoven (plus Savall for the Eroica), Bruggen for Mendelssohn.

 

Hi, wkasimer.

My favourite cycle for Beethoven is The Academy of Ancient Music. The sound they made in the early (Hogwood) days was very raw, and crystal clear, and suits my preference for thinner and more textured gut strings. The first recording they made of Handel's Messiah is still my favourite (although the Brandenburg Consort runs them close), and I even prefer their cycle of Mozart Symphonies (I also own the Pinnock and Ter Linden recordings). There's just something so honest (possibly more like innocent) about the sound the AAM produced during those glory days of the '70s and '80s. But, individually, I do have some favourites that aren't by Hogwood. I too prefer Savall's No.3. Gardiner's No.6 is my go-to when sitting on a long-haul flight. Didier Talpain's No.1 is exhilarating and wonderfully wind-heavy. And, although I still think Hogwood's No.9 is the most savage and satisfying No.9, Tilson Thomas runs him pretty close. I prefer Bruggen's first cycle to his second, which is a little too polished for my taste. I think my new favourite No.3 is the Bruggen live recording from 2005 in Warsaw.

As for Mendelssohn, I love Norrington's No.3, and Bruggen's No.5. My favourite No.4 is Mackerras. Of particular interest to me is the McGegan second version of No.4. Well worth a listen if you haven't heard it. I actually prefer Mendelssohn's second version of that symphony.

 

Welcome Ralph!

I'm another Krivine fan!

Have you got this one? Mendelssohn #1 played by the Cappella Coloniensis conducted by Sigiswald Kuijken. (Amazon)

 

Thank you, Kiki! I've been looking for a period instrument version of Mendelssohn's No.1 for ages! There's a video on YouTube of a performance by Immerseel, but it hasn't been released on CD.

 

Welcome to TC, Ralph. Nice list and first post. I'm a fellow Beethoven symphony nutcase. BTW, you may be interested in Granate's and my own Beethoven Symphony Cycle posts (best to search on Google rather than use the site search engine). BTW, I'm a big admirer of Immerseel's set and like others you mentioned above. Enjoy the site.

 

Welcome. You appear to have all your bases covered! :tiphat:

 

You're missing John Eliot Gardiner's remake of Beethoven's Eroica, for the film "Eroica - The day that changed music forever ". It's available as a stand alone 'surround sound' performance on DVD, but I don't think it's ever been released on CD or hybrid SACD (?): https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7936377--eroica-the-day-that-changed-music-for-ever. Some people consider it to be better than the 3rd that Gardiner recorded for his earlier DG Archiv cycle (which wouldn't surprise me).

(Although it's not a symphony, you might also want to own Gardiner's two Missa Solemnis recordings, as they're exceptional:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Mi...=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549573776&sr=1-2&keywords=Gardiner+beethoven+missa+solemnis
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Mi...=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549573776&sr=1-1&keywords=Gardiner+beethoven+missa+solemnis

By the way, I wouldn't want to be without Christopher Hogwood's superb AAM cycle of Beethoven's Piano Concertos 1-5, with the excellent fortepianist, Steven Lubin, either, if you don't know it: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Pi...2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549573735&sr=1-2&keywords=steven+lubin+hogwood+beethoven.)

Otherwise, the only period Beethoven cycle that you're missing--that I know about--is the current one from the Orchester Wiener Akademie and conductor Martin Haselböck on the Alpha label. I've yet to get to it myself (as it hasn't been boxed), but Haselböck and his period orchestra have attempted to recreate the original performances of Beethoven's 9 by paying scrupulous attention to the orchestra (& chorus) layout from 200 years ago, and by recording in the actual venues where the premieres took place, wherever possible (as 4 of the 6 venues have survived). For example, their recent performance of the 4th Symphony was recorded at the Palais Lobkowitz in Vienna, where the premiere of the 4th took place in March 1807. While the 9th was recorded at the Kärntnertheater in Vienna, where the 9th was premiered in May 1824, etc., etc. The cycle is called "Resound Beethoven" and they're recording more than just the symphonies. I believe they're up to Vol. 8, but I'm not sure if the cycle has been completed yet (if not, they're close). With that said, you had better read some reviews, as I'm not sure how these recordings have been received by the critics.

https://www.amazon.com/Resound-Beet...MZ7/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549568752&sr=1-2&keywords=Resound+Beethoven

Otherwise, I think you're covered.

Although, as a fellow period enthusiast, I wouldn't want to be without two HIP Beethoven cycles on modern instruments, which could almost be mistaken for period cycles:

1. Ensemble Orchestral de Paris, John Nelson: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-1-9-L-V/dp/B000K15U2W: This enjoyable, if somewhat inconsistent cycle has one of the great 8ths on record, IMO: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphonies-1-9-L-V/dp/B000K15U2W

2. Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Nikolaus Harnoncourt. The 4th & 5th in this cycle were arguably misses, which is why I suspect Harnoncourt re-recorded them on period instruments with his Concentus Musicus Wien towards the end of his life. Those later performances are much better & the only period 5th that I'd recommend, among those that I know--as all the period conductors miss in the 5th, IMO, except for Harnoncourt. However, Harnoncourt's 2nd from his COE cycle is one of the great 2nds on record, in my opinion, and his COE 6th is almost as remarkable, and I wouldn't want to be without these two:https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Ni...ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549575841&sr=1-1&keywords=Harnoncourt+beethoven

You might also want to consider the HIP Beethoven cycles from (3) Giovanni Antonini & the Kammerorchester Basel on Sony--an orchestra that plays on both modern & period instruments, interchangeably, and has worked regularly with period conductors, (4) Sir Charles Mackerras and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra (another excellent HIP 5th), and (5) perhaps Bernard Haitink's LSO Live cycle.

As for Mendelssohn, again, I think you're covered on the period instrument front. However, you might want to also consider owning a modern instrument cycle from the orchestra that Mendelssohn was the music director for between 1835-47, the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra. Its members are trained at the Leipzig Conservatory, which Mendelssohn founded and set a high musical standard for. To this day, the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra (& the Gewandhaus String Quartet) claim to perform in a tradition that goes directly back to Mendelssohn and Beethoven (whose works they also premiered). Under Kurt Masur, the Gewandhaus Orchestra performed Mendelssohn and Beethoven (& Brahms) symphonies in a more classical, HIP style then most other modern instrument orchestras. & Masur recorded two Mendelssohn cycles during his tenure in Leipzig (& two Beethoven cycles, as well, with an extra live 9th on Berlin classics):

https://www.amazon.com/Felix-Mendel...FL7/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549570660&sr=1-5&keywords=mendelssohn+masur
https://www.amazon.com/Mendelssohn-...VMA/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549570775&sr=1-1&keywords=mendelssohn+masur

(If you want to hear Masur at his HIP best in Beethoven, have a listen to his 1st, 2nd, and 4th Symphonies, as well as his brilliant Fidelio and Missa Solemnis:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Fi...AMWKI98/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549571170&sr=1-1&keywords=fidelio+masur
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Ge...s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1549571279&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=masur+beethoven+symphony+4
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sy...1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549571371&sr=1-13&keywords=masur+beethoven+symphony+1
https://www.amazon.com/Eurodisc-Rec...QDTWHC/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1549573604&sr=1-1&keywords=masur+eurodisc
https://www.amazon.com/Missa-Solemn...sic&ie=UTF8&qid=1549573659&sr=1-2&keywords=masur+missa+solemnis+berlin+classics

In addition, it's worth hearing Riccardo Chailly's electrifying HIP Eroica from the Gewandhaus Orchestra's later Decca cycle (although I have mixed feelings about Chailly's cycle as a whole):

My two cents.

P.S. I hope that you've fully appreciated the authentic rustic sounding valveless Viennese horns that Jos Van Immerseel took the trouble to track down for his Beethoven cycle, and especially how they blend together with the period woodwinds & timpani in his remarkable 7th, as they produce effects--such as the sound of galloping horses, that I don't think you'll hear elsewhere. Suffice it to say, it's one of my favorite period recordings of a Beethoven symphony. Plus, Immerseel thoroughly understands how this is Beethoven's most Handel-influenced symphony (which is why all the period conductors are at their best in this work). For me, it was the highlight of his cycle:

 

Wow! Thank you so much for your exhaustive response, Josquin13.

I was completely unaware of the project under way by Haselböck. I'll be onto this for sure.

Also, I haven't seen or heard the Gardiner Eroica film. This reminded me of the DVDs/Blu-ray recordings I have; I'll list these below.

DVD: Beethoven's Fifth. A Rediscovery: Anima Eterna, Immerseel

DVD: Symphony No.9: Anima Eterna, Australian Brandenburg Choir, Immerseel

DVD: Symphonies 4&7: Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, Jurowski

Blu-ray: Symphony No.3: Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, Bruggen

As for your other suggestions, I have heard many HIP recordings played modern instruments, and I can't get past the sound of those dang modern instruments. Particularly the flutes and oboes are so obviously not antique. No thanks!

But thanks again for your help with period instrument recordings of Beethoven's symphonies.

Cheers,

Ralph

 

By the way, Ralph, you should also consider Norrington's proper 2nd cycle (that first set was pants by comparison) which is on modern instruments but is period informed and uses minimum rubato (importantly not no rubato). Also I didn't see mention of Stangel"s period set with the Pocket Orchestra or Boyd and the Manchester Camerata (a set well worth investigating). I've een impressed by some individual releases of the Haselbock (especially an exceptional Eroica) but will reserve judgement until all 9 are available. Nice to see someone interested in new and innovative performances and who doesn't believe that the only good Beethoven was recorded on a wax cylinder at the dawn of time by long-dead, bland conductors.

 

This is a cracker of a new period Mendelssohn 1 from Pablo Heras-Casado and the Freiburger Barockorchester.!

 

Thanks so much for letting me know, Kiki! I ordered this within two minutes of reading your post.

 

Is Gardiner THE HIP Beethoven cycle, kind of like how Karajan ‘63 is THE old-school Beethoven cycle (like it or not)? Am I completely projecting with these consensuses, and way off?

 

Is Gardiner THE HIP Beethoven cycle, kind of like how Karajan '63 is THE old-school Beethoven cycle (like it or not)? Am I completely projecting with these consensuses, and way off?

I know that a lot of people seem to think so, but I much prefer other HIP cycles, particularly those of Brüggen, Immerseel, and especially Krivine.

 

I had a Hanover Band LvB cycle and got rid of it because it sounded strange. I don't think they did a very good job of recording it.

 

Agreed, very echoey (is that a word) church acoustic.

 

I like some HIP Beethoven - I have some of Gardiner's, some of Hogwood's, and all of Immerseel's. I enjoy Immerseel and Gardiner - Hogwood just seems to thin to my taste.

What I have come to greatly enjoy is the fusion of modern instruments with the practices introduced - smaller forces, swifter tempi - by the period performance movement. Vanska's recent cycle with Minnesota and Jarvi's wonderful cycle with the Deutsche Philharmonie Bremen are excellent, and high on my list.

 

If you like those then you'll like Adam Fischer's new Beethoven cycle on Naxos. Brisk, punchy and better than Jarvi, for me.

 

The new set of Beethoven from Ádám Fischer is great (available on Spotify). The high res download has been available from Chandos.net & highresaudio.com etc. for some time. However, the digital booklet does not state the recording dates, and I can't find that anywhere on the internet. That's unusual of Naxos... so I'm boycotting it. ...... Has anyone got the CD box set? (seems delayed?) Does the printed booklet state the recording dates? Grateful for any information!

 

I have the digital download and I can't find the recording dates on mine but I'm guessing these are 2019 recordings as they reference what the artists were doing in 2018. I certainly wouldn't boycott this set. It's well worth getting.

 

Thanks Merl. I'm waiting for a reply from Naxos about the recording dates. If they will give me the dates, I'll buy it immediately.

BTW, highresaudio.com is currently selling the 24/96 download of this set at USD15.80. It's a nice bargain.

Meanwhile let's do some detective work, just for fun.

The sound recordings are copyrighted 2016-2019. That means the master of the earliest recording was made in 2016, meaning that the earliest recording was made no later than 2016.

The digital booklet states that these recordings were "created in the orchestra's period as a private ensemble", and "the recordings have taken place immediately after intensive and well-attended concerts". Given that the Danish Chamber Orchestra gave their first concert as a private ensemble in Feb 2015 (re wiki), the earliest recording in this set must have been made no earlier than 2015.

On the other hand, I think references to activities in 2018 in the booklet is natural and logical because the package of this set is copyrighted 2019.

Conclusion? No conclusion, I'm afraid. I'm waiting for Naxos' reply. ... I suppose this is only a problem for people who are obsessed with recording dates.

 

Let us know what you discover. Strange that theres no recording dates. I reckon theyre mostly less than 2 years old.

 

Double post. Oops!

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Good day!

Per feedback from the department concerned, the Place of recording is at Concert Hall, Royal Danish Academy of Music, Denmark, and the date of recording is 29 February - 1 March 2016.

We hope this helps.

Warmest regards,

What can I say about this skimpy reply from Naxos about the recording dates of Adam Fischer's set? I feel like Charlie Brown vs this sloppy world. Good grief.

I'm lucky. Thanks to Ras' help, I don't need to rely on Naxos' customer service for an answer.

BTW, I've listened to the digital download of 7 & 8. As expected the sound quality is significantly better than Spotify. I really like the expressiveness and the HIP sonority, even though there are a few fussy moments (idiomatic if one likes that).

 

Idiomatic and dramatic best describe the whole cycle but i really like it. Review to come next week.

 

"The 4th & 5th in this cycle were arguably misses, which is why I suspect Harnoncourt re-recorded them on period instruments with his Concentus Musicus Wien towards the end of his life."

Actually, he was planning to record them all again for Sony Classical. He considered that the Concentus musicus could not play them in the 1990s (hence Chamber Orchestra of Europe) whereas in the 2010s, he felt they were "ready". He also played the 1st and 3rd with them in Vienna (I have a recording of it) somewhen in 2014 or early 2015 and he would have performed the rest of the symphonies during the season 2015-16 and 2016-17 but fate decided otherwise...

As a big fan of Harnoncourt -I rarely missed him whenever he was performing in Vienna (must have seen him about 175 times between 1993 and 2015)- and I never left the concert hall disappointed! Not once!