Recently I decided to begin with piano concertos since I just explored the 5 greatest violin concertos by general consensus (Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn & Sibelius). Anyway I decided to start with Beethoven, and specifically his 3rd Piano Concerto, no idea why. After listening to his third I also listened to his 1st and 2nd (I think I’m going to listen to his 4th and 5th tomorrow) and I definitely prefer the 3rd. It also sounds more like Beethoven than the first 2 (case in point, the last note of the 2nd movement being very loud even though before there was a very relaxing mood going on, as though he was waking us up for the 3rd movement, which btw has a very good melody, one that’s been stuck in my head all evening). Anyway I noticed there wasn’t a thread on this particular concerto and I was wondering what are your thoughts on this concerto? Do you feel like it’s overshadowed by his 4th and 5th concertos? Do you prefer it over his later concertos and if you do why? And of course any recordings that you like you can recommend. I have personally picked Fleisher/Szell as my reference cycle since that seems to be the most recommended cycle
Beethoven Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 37
Joek Baron
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The third is definitely my favourite Beethoven piano concerto. The first two are nice but influenced by Mozart. The fourth is great except for the disastrous second movement. The fifth is thundering Beethoven without delicacy and nice melodies. It has a rigid structure.
The third has none of these deficiencies and is therefore near perfect. When I talk with my peers they tend to prefer the fourth, but i do not agree with them.
The third has none of these deficiencies and is therefore near perfect. When I talk with my peers they tend to prefer the fourth, but i do not agree with them.
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I don't know the Fleisher/Szell (only their 5th which is good although IMO not quite as great as its reputation but I could never be bothered to get the others). There are so many recordings, I own or have listened to about 15 of them. Another favorite although more conventional is Kovacevich/Davis. Argerich/Abbado is let down a bit by small scale conducting, IIRC. But in general it's music I rarely listen to nowadays because I heard it so often since my teenage days.
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Kovacevich / Davis
Kempff / van Kempan
Kempff / Leitner
Graffmann
Ashkenazy / Solti
Fleisher / Szell
Serkin / Bernstein
Serkin / Ozawa
Argerich / Abaddo
Richter / Sanderling
Perahia / Haitink
I’m sure I have more. Used to play it myself but not quite as well as the above. Foolishness of youth!
Kempff / van Kempan
Kempff / Leitner
Graffmann
Ashkenazy / Solti
Fleisher / Szell
Serkin / Bernstein
Serkin / Ozawa
Argerich / Abaddo
Richter / Sanderling
Perahia / Haitink
I’m sure I have more. Used to play it myself but not quite as well as the above. Foolishness of youth!
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I'm listening to this now and couldn't agree more.
Rubinstein/Toscanini - surely not? But yes, it did happen and what's more it's in the big AR box I own. How did I miss that one?
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Supposedly Rubinstein/Toscanini didn't get along very well at the first rehearsal but eventually it worked out fine for the actual recording. Neither of them were young then but they had more fire than many youngsters. In the older Rubinstein collection from the late 1990s this was coupled with to similarly lively sonatas (op.31/3 and 57) from the 1940s.
I think it was also the Beethoven concerto Gould played most frequently when he was still playing concerts. I only know the studio recording (with Bernstein, slow, but one of the few slow versions I still find interesting) but there are several live/bootlegs, among them one with Karajan/Berlin.
I think it was also the Beethoven concerto Gould played most frequently when he was still playing concerts. I only know the studio recording (with Bernstein, slow, but one of the few slow versions I still find interesting) but there are several live/bootlegs, among them one with Karajan/Berlin.
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For me, the third concerto is built on the play of light and shadow; hence, the minor key but the lack of "tragedy" noted by others. I find Leif Over Andsnes captures this quality beautifully. It probably helps that he conducts as well and is able to draw the same effect from the orchestra.
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This is my favorite of Beethoven's piano concertos, and my favorite performance is this one:
I also like Zimerman's...
I think it's certainly true to say it's not classically "tragic" in tone. Actually, I think the emotional nuance and range is part of what makes it stand apart for me - the first movement moving between stern and a kind of mischievous euphoria, the beautiful serenity of the second movement, and the frenetic third movement - none of the others come close for me.
I also like Zimerman's...
I think it's certainly true to say it's not classically "tragic" in tone. Actually, I think the emotional nuance and range is part of what makes it stand apart for me - the first movement moving between stern and a kind of mischievous euphoria, the beautiful serenity of the second movement, and the frenetic third movement - none of the others come close for me.
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I really like your description, have you listened to Fleisher/Szell?
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no, I'll check it out, thanks!
No melodies in Beethovens 5th Concerto? Uh really ?
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Is there a difference between a melody and a nice melody? Is there a difference between a putt and a nice putt?
Clearly it’s overshadowed by the 5th in the sense of reception. I’m not sure there is any other meaningful sense of »overshadowed » I like the 4th very much, and the 1st. It took me longer to get into the 3rd, which can sound bombastic to me. There was one performance which won me over more than any other, a live one with Gulda and Mario Rossi, just a magical concert caught well on record. I hear the 3rd as a classical style symphony, same genre as K491. There’s a story that Beethoven was inspired to write it after hearing K491 in fact.
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Sorry for reviving my own thread but I just wanted to share something and thought this was the best thread to do it. It’s crazy because my favourite Beethoven piano concerto was the 3rd for very long and I had already listened to the 5th about five times and it just didn’t click for me. I listened to the 4th a lot more because I did like it but just not as much as the 3rd. So a few days ago I came across a video of Zimmerman and Bernstein performing the 5th piano concerto and I watched it and it was a surreal experience. I recognised all the themes and moments that I didn’t really pick up on before but suddenly now it was just amazing and jaw droppingly gorgeous but also very heroic. I couldn’t believe it but just by listening to it once after about 2 months it instantly became my favourite Beethoven piano concerto. And I listened yesterday again and it might be my favourite piano concerto in general. And I don’t think the performance that I originally listened to is at fault, it is Fleisher/Szell which is regarded as one of the best Emperors. Normally it never takes me this long to appreciate something that becomes a favourite. One or 2 times max and I normally know if I find something amazing or just nice or not at all. But I at least now know that even after listening to something more times than usual and still not liking it, there is always hope. Most of all I’m very happy to have ‘discovered’ such an amazing concerto!
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I wonder where you got your "general consensus" on violin concertos? I would not argue with them - they are all great. Maybe you should start with the "general consensus" for piano concertos. It would more likely include Beethoven's 5th PC than his 3rd. The other 4 IMHO would be Tchaikovsky 1, Rachmaninov 2, Schumann, and Mozart 20. But it's very hard to limit it to five and my choices might change daily.
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I am pretty sure that Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelsohn are the most popular, most played/recorded violin concertos. Sibelius is at least a very good candidate for the next, together with Bruch' g minor, maybe Mozart 5th, or one of Prokofiev's.
For piano I also think that Tchaikovsky 1, Rach 2, Beethoven 5 are at the top; the Grieg might be even more popular than Schumann. I think that no single Mozart concerto dominates sufficiently to get to the top 5, and I'd think that K 467 or 488 are more popular than 466.
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General consensus as in the most popular among audiences and soloists. And I have already listened to the general consensus for piano concertos, with my favourites being Grieg, rach 2 and Beethoven 5. I also love Shostakovich’s 2nd, the first ever piano concerto that I listened to
Brendel/Rattle did a fine Fourth concerto (Wiener Philharmoniker) from what I recall; their Third might also be good but I don't specifically remember. If you like Brendel, you're in luck; he also did a cycle with Levine and a cycle with Haitink. I think the lighter "classical" style of Brendel might lend itself well to this concerto also. Curious to hear people's thoughts on Weissenberg/Karajan, which I haven't listened to but might out of curiosity. There are also two cycles played by Mitsuko Uchida (one with Kurt Sanderling, the other with Rattle). I enjoyed Fleisher/Szell.
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