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Beethoven symphony cycle with the best sound and performance

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#83 ·
hpowders said:
The Abbado and Chailly sets for the combination of best sound and performance, though I would take the Wand set over either of them without any sound restrictions.
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Talking about the Abbado Berliner set.

I just noticed that the BPO cycle I listened to in 2016 was the OOP 2000 edition, not the 2008 later reedition recorded in Rome in 2001.

Phil (not) in Magnolia said:
Other reviewers have expressed their opinions of this collection of Claudio Abbado's recordings of Beethoven's symphonies, recorded in 2000, actually in mostly positive reviews which just goes to show you that not everyone's taste is the same.

The main purpose of my review is to make others aware that there is a newer release of the Beethoven Symphonies, also conducted by Claudio Abbado and with the Berlin Philharmonic, and available for less than half the price of this box set: Beethoven: The Symphonies, but most importantly the newer recordings were made in order to document Abbado's "final interpretative wishes" and to replace these earlier recordings made with the Berlin Philharmonic just one year earlier.

Yes, Claudio Abbado essentially apologized for the performances released with this box set and just a single year later re-recorded them. Quite extraordinary, that.

The newer recordings have Symphonies 1-8 recorded live in Rome in 2001 especially for that release. Symphony 9 is from the same 2000 performance as this box set, recorded live in Berlin, but re-edited to satisfy maestro Abbado's requirements.

Again, the later recordings were made in order to document Abbado's "final interpretative wishes" and to replace these earlier recordings he had made.

The Gramophone Classical Music Guide 2012 gives the newer box set a high recommendation, as does Penguin Guide 2008. That doesn't necessarily mean that the later interpretations will be the "best" for any individual listener, but it is a generally reliable indication that there is something special with the recordings and they are worth seriously considering, among the vast array of other recordings of Beethoven's symphonies available (my personal favorite being Gardiner (Beethoven: The Symphonies) but I have others as well including Karajan's Beethoven: 9 Symphonies (1963), plenty of variety to enjoy what for me are the best symphonies in the repertoire).

Again - be aware of the alternate box set which "should" be preferable, and is available for a much lower price.

Or - heck, If you for whatever reason feel that this earlier set of recordings is one that you wish to have, then know that it is no longer being produced by Deutsche Grammophon, so that price is likely to go up even further in the future.
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That is why I didn't understand the love for the Abbado BPO recordings. I was just mixing up the sets.
 
#84 · (Edited)
I've been getting a bit mixed-up by Dudamel's Beethoven recordings. I already had this one, on DG with the Bolivars, and love the supercharged 7th (the 5th is ok).

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Hence, when I got hold of Dudamel's complete symphony set I was surprised to see that it's a self-released Beethoven cycle and doesn't include the original traversals he did with DG (with the same orchestra). Instead Dudamel has re-imagined his original accounts of the 3rd, 5th and 7th. The result? Well if I'm being honest, it's not as good. Dudamel's complete cycle is nowhere near as thrilling as his original recordings (especially that 7th with the gripping, lightning speed finale). Is it good? Well on initial skip-thru it is a good set but there are so many good sets out there it doesn't stand out amongst the competition.I was expecting fireworks and fire and brimstone and yet this cycle is far from that. It's actually quite laid-back.

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Speeds are nowhere near metronome markings for most symphonies and some are pretty broad (especially the 6th), lending to a more 70s mid-European sound. Dudamel says he's changed his readings and view of the symphonies over time and there's no doubting the orchestra play with great commitment and skill but it all lends to a better-than-good-but-not-outstanding experience. I may be being a little unfair to this at the moment but, like Thielemann's set, it's yet to set my world on fire. I'll get back to you when I've lived with it for a few weeks but for now it's not a front-runner. As far as the new Blomstedt / Gewandhaus cycle is concerned, I've given it a fortnight of my time but it's not impressed me. It's certainly nowhere near as good as the Dresden set in my estimation. Beautifully played but lacking dynamic thrust and some umph.
 
#85 · (Edited)
Perhaps I am derailing the topic but please bear with me.

I heard the First finale towards the end from Karajan 63 and Chailly. Besides the tempo, I was surprised to notice that Chailly uses the brass (with trilling trumpets) for the close while Karajan uses the timpani.

Is it me dreaming or is a conductor allowed to use different instruments in the piece interpretation? or is the composer giving such liberty?

BTW the pleasure of comparing interpretations is pure bliss.
 
#86 ·
^^
Are you talking about Beethoven's No.7?

Generally what you hear in a Concert of the same symphony is the same score. The differences are in the refinement and the tempi.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

In studio recordings, there is another element: the producer. Together with the conductor (at least in the case of Karajan) they decide which sound fits best the "pursuit of perfection". Then, in the master tapes the producer and engineers modify the sound mix to give more presence to certain microphones. It was very common in the Analogue era and a job that Karajan took very seriously.
 
#88 ·
Granate said:
^^
Are you talking about Beethoven's No.7?

Generally what you hear in a Concert of the same symphony is the same score. The differences are in the refinement and the tempi.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

In studio recordings, there is another element: the producer. Together with the conductor (at least in the case of Karajan) they decide which sound fits best the "pursuit of perfection". Then, in the master tapes the producer and engineers modify the sound mix to give more presence to certain microphones. It was very common in the Analogue era and a job that Karajan took very seriously.
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Granate, I am talking about Beethoven's No.1. I do not remember if it was the first movement or the last. It was towards the end. I listened it at a friend's place, I cannot check again easily.

Giving more presence to certain microphone - yes it could also be, but the result in timbre sounds very different (especially the trumpet trill).
 
#89 · (Edited)
I want to put in a word for Haitink's recent live Beethoven symphony cycle with the London Symphony Orchestra. He skinnied his forces down from previous efforts and moved somewhat toward the "HIP" end of the spectrum, with excellent results. This is a fine and very musical cycle, which I like a lot.

The downloadable version is $14 on Amazon, a real bargain.

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#90 ·
KenOC said:
I want to put in a word for Haitink's recent live Beethoven symphony cycle with the London Symphony Orchestra. He skinnied his forces down from previous efforts and moved somewhat toward the "HIP" end of the spectrum, with excellent results. This is a fine and very musical cycle, which I like a lot.

The downloadable version is $14 on Amazon, a real bargain.

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Couldn't agree more. A superb cycle, capped by a slow-burning 9th and a terrific 4th and 7th.
 
#91 · (Edited)
I have Barenboim (don't really care for it), Karajan '63, Solti, Gardiner, and I just got the Chailly yesterday. Of the four I previously had, I liked Gardiner the best, hands down, but this Chailly is absolutely riveting. I've made it through No. 3, No. 5, No. 6 and No. 8 thus far. The finale of No. 8 - holy cow what good fun. The 1st movement of the 6th (my single favorite movement in any Beethoven Symphony) is faster than am used to, but I quite like it. All in all, thus far I'm thrilled with it. I'll leave the 9th until I can find time to really focus on that. Also listened to the 4th movement of the 2nd, which is also good fun. The orchestral playing is just so great. So great.

People have to remember that this movement to conduct Beethoven slower than intended started in what the 50s/60s? I tend to believe that Beethoven knows more about music than any conductor or any of us. So, I prefer things to be played to the composers intentions. But, I do love the different interpretations. It would be boring if everyone interpreted everything the same.
 
#92 ·
tgtr0660 said:
Gardiner and Harnoncourt kill Beethoven.
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Regarding Gardiner, how so? I find his Beethoven absolutely magnificent. One has to remember Beethoven's music was shocking when it premiered. Beethoven isn't always meant to be beautiful and smooth. Gardiner hits the nail on the head, IMO.
 
#93 · (Edited)
Have three sets but my favourite is Riccardo Muti and Philadelphia Orchestra except for symphonies 4 & 7 which I love performed by ASMF with Joshua Bell directing the orchestra.

Other two being

Simon Rattle Vienna Philharmonic
Nikolaus Harnoncourt Chamber Orchestra of Europe
 
#94 · (Edited)
gellio said:
I have Barenboim (don't really care for it), Karajan '63, Solti, Gardiner, and I just got the Chailly yesterday. Of the four I previously had, I liked Gardiner the best, hands down, but this Chailly is absolutely riveting. I've made it through No. 3, No. 5, No. 6 and No. 8 thus far. The finale of No. 8 - holy cow what good fun. The 1st movement of the 6th (my single favorite movement in any Beethoven Symphony) is faster than am used to, but I quite like it. All in all, thus far I'm thrilled with it. I'll leave the 9th until I can find time to really focus on that. Also listened to the 4th movement of the 2nd, which is also good fun. The orchestral playing is just so great. So great.
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Wait for the 9th. It was so urging that I had to stand up and walk in a state of bliss. Chailly and the orchestra give us drama and joy, 21st century style. And this by using the original metronome which Beethoven wanted!
 
#95 · (Edited)
It's so difficult to confidently recommend Beethoven cycles, as they all have their strengths and weaknesses (& besides, people have varying tastes and expectations). I actually find it more interesting to talk about the highlights (or disappointments) from the different cycles--such as Harnoncourt's 2nd and 6th, Chailly's 3rd, Hogwood's 1st and 4th, Gardiner's 7th & 9th, Immerseel's brilliant 7th!, Nelson's 8th!, etc. And, the various reasons why most of the period boys seem to fail so miserably in the 5th and 9th. Or, why the Eroica is so extremely difficult for most conductors to manage to pull off. But, if I were pressed to choose only a few cycles that offer the best combination of sound and performance, overall, I'd likely pick from the following sets:

1. On modern instruments: my choice would be between: (1) Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam, Phillips digital (1989); (2) Eugen Jochum's newly remastered EMI set with the London Symphony Orchestra (in the Jochum ICON box set), and (3) Kurt Masur's 1st cycle with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra on the AMSI remasters from Universal Eloquence (which I slightly prefer to the Pentatone SACDs).

2. On period instruments: that's another tough choice, but it would be between (1) Frans Bruggen's 1st studio cycle on Phillips (which is better in both sound & performance from Bruggen's 2nd live cycle), (2) Gardiner's cycle on DG Archiv, and (3) Hogwood's set on L'Oiseau-Lyre. Granted, Gardiner is the only period conductor I've heard that has made a very good recording of the 9th (& Missa Solemnis), but I don't overly care for Gardiner's set otherwise (except for his 7th)--so I'd probably take Bruggen 1. Having said that, I certainly wouldn't want to be without Immerseel's 7th--which is one of my all-time favorite recordings of the 7th (as I thoroughly enjoy the sound of the original Viennese horns that Anima Eterna uses! which work perfectly with the original woodwinds & strings in this symphony).

3. HIP on modern instruments: another difficult choice: admittedly, I haven't heard all of Giovanni Antonini's recently completed cycle, including his 9th, but I'd probably lean towards John Nelson's cycle in Paris, as well Bernard Haitink's with the LSO live. Chailly's Leipzig set is good too, but it's too relentlessly driven when listened to in larger doses. Harnoncourt can also be good--such as his superb 2nd (& 6th), but he's more erratic in the other symphonies--as with his disappointing 4th & 5th. Charles MacKerras's set with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra has some exceptional qualities too, but it wouldn't be my first choice either. So, Nelson and Haitink are probably the most consistent overall. & Haitink is better in the 9th, which was one of the weak points of Nelson's cycle (i.e., the 4th choral movement).
 
#100 ·
I'd like to hear Noseda's Proms performances in better sound than the poor 128k downloads they were given in. The sound ruins the whole cycle for me. Its not a great cycle but very enjoyable, nonetheless.
 
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