[justekaia]

Excellent orchestral piece called Atlas (2019) by Swiss composer Helena Winkelman (1974).

 

[justekaia]

Canadian composer Nicole Lizée's Bookburners for cello and turntables. A fascinating inkling of the music of the future.

 

[Red Terror]

How do Nicole Lizée and the CBC know this is the music of the future? 😀

 

[justekaia]

How do Nicole Lizée and the CBC know this is the music of the future? 😀

an inkling is very far from a certainty; moreover i made the comment, not the composer; so plse do not involve her, but listen to sculptress on soundcloud; this will tell you how good she is

 

[justekaia]

As i get the question in various other threads to recommend contemporary works, i have assembled a list of selected works per genre composed between 1982 and 2022. Happy listening.
Contemporary Music (1982-2022): Recommended listening

-Symphony: Symphony 8, Norgärd 2010-2011
-Orchestral Music: Shaker Loops, J.Adams 1983
-Piano Concerto: The Air suspended, Cerrone 2019
-Violin Concerto: Sur le même Accord, Dutilleux 2002
-Cello Concerto: Sielunmaisema, Martinaityte 2019
-Viola Concerto: Viola Concerto, B.Dean 2004
-Clarinet Concerto: Peacock Tales, Hillborg 1998-2004
-Oboe Concerto: Oboe concerto, E.Carter 1986-1987
-Guitar Concerto: Guitar Concerto no 9, Brouwer 2002
-Trumpet Concerto: Miramondo multiplo, Neuwirth 2006
-Ensemble music: In Vain, G.F. Haas 2000-2002
-String Quartet: Divisio Spiralis, C.Lamb 2019
-String Trio: In Honour of Schnittke, Korndorf 1986
-Piano Quintet: Piano Quintet, Ades 2000
-Solo String Music: Limite les Rêves au-delà, Parra 2017
-Solo Piano Music: Garden 8, Lei Liang 2004
-Vocal Music: Let me tell you, Abrahamsen 2013
-Choir Music: Choir Concerto, Schnittke 1984-1985
-Sacred Music: Stabat Mater, Pärt 1985
-Opera: Innocence, Saariaho 2018
-Electro-acoustic Music: Forêt profonde, Dhomont 1994-1996

 

[justekaia]

Helen Grime's Violin Concerto (2016) , probably one of the best violin concertos of this century. As confirmed to me by the composer you should listen only until 22:43. The rest are repetitions of bits and pieces. Leila Josefowicz plays the concerto regularly during her concerts.

 

[justekaia]

Arne Nordheim was a fabulous Norwegian composer with strong orchestral and chamber music, coupled with outstanding vocal music and some exceptional electronic pieces. I invite you to listen to his "Rendez-Vous" an orchestral piece which consists of three parts. My favourite is the third a haunting piece for strings called Nachruf.

 

[justekaia]

Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi (1981) is the trombonist and conductor Christian Lindberg's daughter and has carved out a career as a composer for herself. Next to this impressive Cello Concerto she has an excellent symphony, a few excellent orchestral works and 3 remarkable string quartets. A composer well worth exploring.

 

[mikeh375]

Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi (1981) is the trombonist and conductor Christian Lindberg's daughter and has carved out a career as a composer for herself. Next to this impressive Cello Concerto she has an excellent symphony, a few excellent orchestral works and 3 remarkable string quartets. A composer well worth exploring.

Beautiful and hypnotic, I loved it. It's quite accessible imv if anyone with more conservative ears wants to try it as there are clear expanded tonal underpinnings and thematic material. Symphony in Fire,Water, Earth and Air is on YT and booked in for listening to later today. Thanks Justekaia.

 

[justekaia]

Rachel Carson's bestseller book "Silent Spring" was published in 1962 and nearly 50 years later Steven Stucky (1949-2016) was commissioned to write a piece on the biologist's scientific and ecological themes. Stucky's tone poem (2011) takes us to the sea, the woods, the rivers and finally the Silent Spring. It is a one movement orchestral piece that tries to create a dramatic and emotional journey. To Stucky music must give us access to our deepest emotional planes where we experience our lives to the fullest. Manfred Honeck premiered the piece with the Pittsburgh SO in 2012 and recently recorded it.

 

[justekaia]

Contemporary Classical Composers after 1950

-Argentina: Alberto Ginastera (1916-1983), Osvaldo Golijov (1960), Mauricio Kagel (1931-2008)
-Armenia: Avet Terterian (1929-1994), Tigran Mansourian (1939)
-Australia: Brett Dean (1961), Chris Dench (1953), Liza Lim (1966), Peter Sculthorpe (1929-2014), Carl Vine (1953)
-Austria: Peter Ablinger (1959), Friedrich Cerha (1926), Georg Friedrich Haas (1953), Bernhard Lang (1957), Klaus Lang (1971), Thomas Larcher (1963), Wolfgang Mitterer (1958), Olga Neuwirth (1968)
-Azerbaijan: Franghiz Ali-Sadeh (1947)
-Belgium: Stefan Prins (1979)
-Brazil: Jose Antonio De Almeida Prado (1943-2010)
-Bulgaria: Dobrinka Tabakova (1980)
-Cambodia: Chinary Ung (1942)
-Canada: Martin Arnold (1959), Taylor Brook (1985), Zosha Di Castri (1985), Nicole Lizée (1973), Cassandra Miller (1976), Marjan Mozetich (1948), Raymond Murray Schafer (1933-2021), Linda Catlin Smith (1957), Marc Sabat (1965), Ann Southam (1937-2010), Claude Vivier (1948-1983)
-China: Qigang Chen (1951), Yi Chen (1953), Du Yun (1977), Ge Gan-Ru (1954), Lei Liang (1972), Huang Ruo (1976), Bright Sheng (1955), Tan Dun (1957), Zhou Long (1953), Zhou Tian (1981)
-Colombia: Carolina Noguera (1979)
-Croatia: Mirela Ivicevic (1980)
-Cuba: Leo Brouwer (1939)
-Cyprus: Yannis Kyriakides (1969)
-Czech Republic: Ondrej Adamek (1979), Victor Kalabis (1923-2006), Krystof Maratka (1972), Martin Smolka (1959)
-Denmark: Hans Abrahamsen (1952), Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgreen (1932-2016), Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996), Per Norgard (1932), Poul Ruders (1949), Bent Sorensen (1958), Simon Steen-Andersen (1976)
-England: Thomas Ades (1971), Julian Anderson (1967), Natasha Barrett (1982), Richard Barrett (1959), Sally Beamish (1956), George Benjamin (1960), Harrison Birtwistle (1934-2022), Charlotte Bray (1982), Gavin Bryars (1943), Cornelius Cardew (1936-1981), Anna Clyne (1980), Edward Cowie (1943), Laurence Crane (1961), Peter Maxwell Davies (1934-2016), Tansy Davies (1973), Brian Ferneyhough (1943), Michael Finnissy (1946), Alexander Goehr (1932) , Philip Grange (1956), Bryn Harrison (1969), Jonathan Harvey (1939-2012), Sam Hayden (1968), Kenneth Hesketh (1968), Simon Holt (1959), Kenneth Leighton (1928-1988), Colin Matthews (1946), David Matthews (1943), Joseph Phibbs (1974), John Pickard (1963), Naomi Pinnock (1979), Rebecca Saunders (1967), Robert Simpson (1921-1997), Ronald Stevenson (1928-2015), John Tavener (1949-2013), Michael Tippett (1905-1998), Mark-Anthony Turnage (1960), Judith Weir (1954)
-Estonia: Rene Eespere (1953), Tönu Körvits (1969), Arvo Pärt (1935), Urmas Sisask (1960), Lepo Sumera (1950-2000), Veljo Tormis (1930-2017), Helena Tulve (1972), Erkki-Sven Tuur (1959)
-Faroe : Sunleif Rasmussen (1961)
-Finland: Kalevi Aho (1949), Einar Englund (1916-1999), Sebastian Fagerlund (1972), Paavo Heininen (1938-2022), Joonas Kokkonen (1921-1996), Magnus Lindberg (1958), Pehr Henrik Nordgren (1944-2008), Einojuhani Rautavaara (1928-2016), Kaija Saariaho (1954) , Aullis Sallinen (1935), Esa-Pekka Salonen (1958), Jukka Tiensuu (1948)
-France: Gilbert Amy (1936), Mark André (1964), Alain Bancquart (1934), François Bayle (1932), Franck Bedrossian (1972), Karol Beffa (1973), Christophe Bertrand (1981-2010), Pierre Boulez (1925-2016), Edith Canat de Chizy (1950), Bernard Cavanna (1951), Guillaume Connesson (1970), Pascale Criton (1954), Marc-André Dalbavie (1961), Francis Dhomont ( 1926), Hugues Dufourt (1943), Pascal Dusapin (1955), Henri Dutilleux (1916-2013), Jean-Claude Eloy (1938), Thierry Escaich (1965), Luc Ferrari (1929-2005), Jean-Louis Florentz (1947-2004), Olivier Greif (1950-2000), Gérard Grisey ( 1936-1998), Philippe Hurel (1955), Michael Levinas (1949), Ivo Malec (1925-2019), Philippe Manoury (1952), Bruno Mantovani (1974), Yan Maresz (1961), Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Marc Monnet (1947), Tristan Murail (1948), Maurice Ohana (1913-1992), Bernard Parmegiani (1927-2013), Eliane Radigue (1932), Thierry Pécou (1965) , Jean-Claude Risset (1938-2016), Yann Robin (1974), Philippe Schoeller (1957), Eric Tanguy (1968)
-Georgia: Giya Kancheli (1935-2019)
-Germany: Carola Bauckholt (1959), Nikolaus Brass (1949), Heiner Goebbels (1952), Friedrich Goldmann (1941-2009), Hans-Werner Henze (1926-2012), Adriana Hölszky (1953), Eva-Maria Houben (1955), Helmut Lachenmann (1935), Isabel Mundry (1963), Matthias Pintscher (1971), Enno Poppe (1969), Wolfgang Rihm (1952), Peter Ruzicka (1948), Mathias Spahlinger (1944), Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007), Wolfgang Von Schweinitz (1953), Hans Tutschku (1966), Jörg Widmann (1973) , Bernd Alois Zimmermann (1918-1970)
-Greece: George Aperghis (1945), Panayiotis Kokoras (1974), Iannis Xenakis (1922-2001)
-Hungary: Peter Eötvös (1944), Gyorgy Kurtag (1926), Gyorgi Ligeti (1923-2006)
-Iceland: Atli Ingolfsson (1962), Thuridur Jonsdottir (1967), Anna Thorvaldsdottir (1977)
-Iran: Elnaz Seyedi (1982)
-Ireland: Gerald Barry (1952), Donnacha Dennehy (1970), Elizabeth Maconchy (1907-1994)
-Israel: Chaya Czernowin (1957), Yair Klartag (1985), Shulamit Ran (1949)
-Italy: Luciano Berio (1925-2003), Pierluigi Billone (1960), Franco Donatoni (1927-2000), Ivan Fedele (1953), Luca Francesconi (1956), Stefano Gervasoni (1962), Clara Iannotta (1983), Luigi Nono (1924-1990), Fausto Romitelli (1963-2004), Lucia Ronchetti (1963), Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988), Salvatore Sciarrino (1947), Marco Stroppa (1959), Francesca Verunelli (1979)
-Japan: Dai Fujikura (1977), Toshio Hosokawa (1955), Misato Mochizuki (1969), Akira Nishimura (1953), Toru Takemitsu (1930-1996), Takashi Yoshimatsu (1953)
-Korea: Unsuk Chin (1961) , Younghi Pagh-Paan (1945), Isang Yun (1917-1995)
-Latvia: Peteris Vasks (1946)
-Lithuania: Juste Janulyte (1982), Egidija Medeksaite (1979), Onute Narbutaite (1956), Zibuokle Martinaityte (1973)
-Mexico: Julio Estrada (1943), Arturo Fuentes (1975), Victor Ibarra (1978), Mario Lavista (1943-2021), Hilda Paredes (1957)
-Netherlands: Peter Adriaansz (1966), Simeon ten Holt (1923-2012), Louis Andriessen (1939-2021), Michel Van der Aa (1970)
-New Zealand: Eve de Castro-Robinson (1956), Denis Smalley (1946)
-Norway: Eivind Buene (1973), Arne Nordheim (1930-2010)
-Peru: Juan Arroyo (1981)
-Poland: Hendryk Gorecki (1933-2010), Witold Lutoslawski (1913-1994), Krzysztof Meyer (1943), Andrzej Panufnik (1914-1991), Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020), Joanna Wozny (1973), Agata Zubel (1978)
-Portugal: Emmanuel Nunes (1941-2012), Joao Pedro Oliveira (1959), Jaime Reis (1983)
-Romania: Maia Ciobanu (1952), Iancu Dumitrescu (1944), Horatiu Radulescu (1942-2008), Doina Rotaru (1951)
-Russia: Sergey Akhunov (1967), Vyacheslav Artyomov (1940), Edison Denisov (1929-1996), Alissa Firsova (1986), Sofia Gubaidulina (1931), Vera Ivanova (1977), Marina Khorkova (1981), Nikolai Korndorf (1947-2001), Vladimir Martynov (1946), Alexander Raskatov (1953), Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998), Rodion Shchedrin (1932), Boris Tishchenko (1939-2010) , Galina Ustvolskaya (1919-2006)
-Scotland: James Dillon (1950), Helen Grime (1981), Alistair Hinton (1950), Oliver Knussen (1952-2018), James MacMillan (1959)
-Serbia: Milica Djordjevic (1984)
-Slovakia: Adrian Democ (1985), Vladimir Godar (1956)
-Slovenia: Nina Senk (1982)
-South Africa: Kevin Volans (1947)
-Spain: Francisco Coll (1985), Gustavo Diaz-Jerez (1970), Francisco Guerrero (1951-1997), Jose Manuel Lopez Lopez (1956), Elena Mendoza (1973), Hector Parra (1976), Alberto Posadas (1967), Roberto Gerhard (1896-1970), Mauricio Sotelo (1961)
-Sweden: Ellen Arkbro (1990), Malin Bang (1974), Anders Hillborg (1954), Allan Pettersson (1911-1980), Ylva Skog (1963), Lisa Streich (1985), Andrea Tarrodi (1981)
-Switzerland: Dieter Ammann (1962), Richard Dubugnon (1968), Jürg Frey (1953), Beat Furrer (1954), Klaus Huber (1924-2017), Michael Jarrell (1958), Helena Winkelman (1974)
-Turkey: T.Ercetin (1983)
-Ukraine: Leonid Desyatnikov (1955), Valentin Silvestrov (1937)
-United States: John Coolidge Adams (1947) , John Luther Adams (1953) , Lera Auerbach (1973) , Milton Babbitt (1916-2011), Mason Bates(1977), John Cage (1912-1992), Robert Carl (1954), Richard Carrick (1971), Elliott Carter (1908-2012), Christopher Cerrone (1985), Anthony Cheung (1982), John Chowning (1934), Gloria Coates (1938), John Corigliano (1938), George Crumb (1929), Sebastian Currier (1953), Bryce Dessner (1976), Alexandra du Bois (1981),William Duckworth (1943-2012), Julius Eastman (1940-1990), Jason Eckardt (1971) , Robert Erickson (1917-1997), Mohammed Fairouz (1985) , Morton Feldman (1926-1987), George Flynn (1937), Peter Garland (1952), Stacy Garrop (1969), Randy Gibson (1978), Philip Glass (1937), Michael Gordon (1956), John Harbison (1938), Lou Harrison (1917-2003), Michael Harrison (1959), Jake Heggie (1961), Sarah Hennies (1979), Michael Hersch (1971), Jennifer Higdon (1962), Alan Hovhaness (1911-2000), Dennis Johnson (1938), Tom Johnson (1938), Ben Johnston (1926-2019), Aaron Jay Kernis (1960), Catherine Lamb (1982), David Lang (1957), Libby Larsen (1950), Hannah Lash (1981), Benjamin Lees (1924-2010), Lowell Liebermann (1961), Alvin Lucier (1931-2021), Ingram Marshall (1942), Sky Macklay (1988), James Matheson (1970), Missy Mazzoli (1980) , Meredith Monk (1942), Nico Muhly (1981), Andrew Norman (1979), Pauline Oliveros (1932-2016), Tristan Perich (1982), Vincent Persichetti (1915-1987), Steve Reich (1936), Roger Reynolds (1935), Terry Riley (1935), Ned Rorem (1923), Frederic Rzewski (1937-2021), Joseph Schwantner (1943), Laura Schwendinger (1962), Ralph Shapey (1921-2002), Elliott Sharp (1952), Caroline Shaw (1982), Gabriella Smith (1991), Kate Soper (1981), Tyshawn Sorey (1980), Steven Stucky (1949-2016), Ellen Taaffe-Zwilich (1939), James Tenney (1934-2006), Christopher Theofanidis (1967), Augusta Read Thomas (1964), Michael Torke (1961), Joan Tower (1938), George Tsontakis (1951), Julia Wolfe (1958), Christian Wolff (1934), Charles Wuorinen (1938-2020), La Monte Young (1935)

My list does not show stars to indicate the quality of the composers because TC's software does not satisfactorily represent my private list with stars. It is the work of a lifetime and a gracious gift to TC members. Anyway i wanted to share this list with the members to show the richness of contemporary music as i show nearly 400 composers which is approximately the same figure i have for pre 1950 composers in my archives. My objective is to reach the 500 mark and i hope my fellow members will contribute to this list. Members like San Antone (thks) are crucial in this segment of classical music and i appeal to him and former and present members to contribute more.I have talked to several members and they enjoy what others post but are afraid to comment and make suggestions themselves. From my experience i reject 80 % of the contemporary classic i hear. So do not be afraid to post.Be bold. And plse make comments, instead of likes. We get great support from Art Rock who is a fan, so we are in a good position to give a lot of listening enjoyment to TC members.

 

[Prodromides]

I shall make so bold and query 'justekaia' on what is her criteria in her assessment on music?
80% rejection!

I hope justekaia is not working at a publishing company - 4 out of 5 submissions will receive rejection.
What does a composer need to demonstrate in order to attain entrance into your Top 20%?

 

[justekaia]

I shall make so bold and query 'justekaia' on what is her criteria in her assessment on music?
80% rejection!

I hope justekaia is not working at a publishing company - 4 out of 5 submissions will receive rejection.
What does a composer need to demonstrate in order to attain entrance into your Top 20%?

i'll quickly reassure you; i don't work for anybody; but i listen to loads of contemporary composers and i am choosy; i might listen to a piece on spotify and reject after 10 seconds; i have more patience with human beings

 

[Prodromides]

i'll quickly reassure you; i don't work for anybody; but i listen to loads of contemporary composers and i am choosy; i might listen to a piece on spotify and reject after 10 seconds; i have more patience with human beings

All of us, no doubt, have stopped playing/listening to specific pieces of music because we were not 'in the mood' for such during those moments. Nevertheless, whichever the pieces of music are, they took time for completion (some took weeks - maybe only days - whilst others took months ... even years) and it is disheartening for me that any given work's prospects could get summarily dismissed in mere seconds.

I'm curious to know what sort of pieces (perhaps 2 or 3 titles of works) were passed over by justekaia.
Any possibility these might benefit from 'second chances'?

 

[justekaia]

All of us, no doubt, have stopped playing/listening to specific pieces of music because we were not 'in the mood' for such during those moments. Nevertheless, whichever the pieces of music are, they took time for completion (some took weeks - maybe only days - whilst others took months ... even years) and it is disheartening for me that any given work's prospects could get summarily dismissed in mere seconds.

I'm curious to know what sort of pieces (perhaps 2 or 3 titles of works) were passed over by justekaia.
Any possibility these might benefit from 'second chances'?

First of all my list is a positive list with nearly 400 composers and i have collected 12 000 pieces in total from these composers. It is meant to give recommendations that can have value for our fellow members. My subjective choice to reject a composer or some works has no negative effect on either of them as i do not make this public. Since you ask for examples i have collected Mauricio Kagel's SQs, piano trios, Die Stücke der Windrose and a few piano and organ pieces. I do not like the rest of his oeuvre. American composers like Mario Davidowsky, David del Tredici and Lukas Foss are not my cup of tea and never will be. Some of our members like these composers and i respect that. On the other hand there are still plenty of composers i have not listened to. As I have stated there is still room for worthwhile additions. By the way i have only one criterion: my ears must like what i hear and be challenged. I hope this satisfies your query.

 

[Prodromides]

There is no shortage of names who are absent from justekaia's above listing.

One at a time, I'll deposit a composer ... with an image of an album if such exists online.

Ashot Zograbian (b. 1945)

//e.snmc.io/i/300/w/f317be8e29ff9d3e91925e92608759d0/2721138

 

[Prodromides]

First of all my list is a positive list with nearly 400 composers and i have collected 12 000 pieces in total from these composers. It is meant to give recommendations that can have value for our fellow members. My subjective choice to reject a composer or some works has no negative effect on either of them as i do not make this public. Since you ask for examples i have collected Mauricio Kagel's SQs, piano trios, Die Stücke der Windrose and a few piano and organ pieces. I do not like the rest of his oeuvre. American composers like Mario Davidowsky, David del Tredici and Lukas Foss are not my cup of tea and never will be. Some of our members like these composers and i respect that. On the other hand there are still plenty of composers i have not listened to. As I have stated there is still room for worthwhile additions. By the way i have only one criterion: my ears must like what i hear and be challenged. I hope this satisfies your query.

Yes, thanks for your reply. I learn more about people through their dislikes than what they approve of.
I now get a sense that justekaia is not enamored of consonant-sounding/tonal idioms. I guess Paul Creston is another one similar to the American trio cited above. As for Kagel, I, too, have difficulty penetrating into his aural world.
Another composer I can't get into is Franco Donatoni. I own 3 CDs of Donatoni's music but each time I listen to any of them I make no further progress and give up.

Speaking for myself, my favorite time period is from the early 1950s up through the late 1970s (generally the 3rd quarter of the 20th century). I notice many serialists missing from justekaia's data (i.e. no Sessions, Searle, Dallapiccola, many others) and I wonder if their 'no show' is due to unfamiliarity with their music ... or deliberate omission?

 

[justekaia]

Yes, thanks for your reply. I learn more about people through their dislikes than what they approve of.
I now get a sense that justekaia is not enamored of consonant-sounding/tonal idioms. I guess Paul Creston is another one similar to the American trio cited above. As for Kagel, I, too, have difficulty penetrating into his aural world.
Another composer I can't get into is Franco Donatoni. I own 3 CDs of Donatoni's music but each time I listen to any of them I make no further progress and give up.

Speaking for myself, my favorite time period is from the early 1950s up through the late 1970s (generally the 3rd quarter of the 20th century). I notice many serialists missing from justekaia's data (i.e. no Sessions, Searle, Dallapiccola, many others) and I wonder if their 'no show' is due to unfamiliarity with their music ... or deliberate omission?

I respectfully want to point out that it would take 4 years to listen to my contemporary collection at my routine 8 hours of listening a day. Add 5 or 8 years for my collection before WW II. This is one of the reasons why i make drastic choices.
Sessions and Dallapiccola are well represented in my collection but i consider the serialists like Dallapiccola to be in the modern category (influenced by the second Viennese School) and Sessions is clearly a modern composer.
Contemporary to me is a concept of new music that has no boundaries; i do not pay too much attention to timelines. I think Varese is the first contemporary composer in spirit. Boulez went on to compose different music after his serial period and is therefore included in my contemporary list. I have not listened to Searle but i will since you mention him although he belongs to modern serialism. Donatoni is a hard nut to crack and like you i am not convinced as i have his entire catalog but only like 9 pieces. As to my preferences in music i believe i am extremely eclectic but i tend to appreciate music that focuses on sound more (which i guess validates your point). That being said there are plenty of very tonal and accessible composers in my list especially among the young crop of women composers (Anna Clyne, Gabriella Smith etc..). I also love De Morales, De Victoria, Monteverdi, JS Bach, CPE Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Mahler and many modern composers who were pretty tonal. But Mozart's dissonance quartet and Beethoven late quartets are among my favourite pieces which are hints of what is to come so many years later.

 

[Prodromides]

Gerard Zinsstag (b.1941)

 

[justekaia]

There is no shortage of names who are absent from justekaia's above listing.

One at a time, I'll deposit a composer ... with an image of an album if such exists online.

Ashot Zograbian (b. 1945)

//e.snmc.io/i/300/w/f317be8e29ff9d3e91925e92608759d0/2721138

i find it strange that you do not start your own thread as you know so many good composers; it seems you aim to surf on successful threads of others