[HenryPenfold]

The management of this world-famous Welsh, virtuoso, crack classical outfit, have cancelled their forthcoming all Tchaikovsky programme, believing that it would be inappropriate to go ahead with it, given the current situation. Are they right?

 

[Art Rock]

Let's give it a try. Reminder upfront:

A special forum has been created for Political and/or Religious discussions that are related to Classical Music. In general political comments and posts are not allowed on Talk Classical, neither in threads nor posts in its forums, social groups, visitor messaging, blogs and signatures, other than those specified related solely to Classical Music in this special dedicated forum.

The discussion should focus solely on whether cancelling scheduled concerts with works by Russian composers is appropriate given the current situation. No excursions into cancelling policies or other policies outside classical music, no discussion about the current war.

 

[marlow]

I think it’s interesting that one of the works was Tchaikovsky’s ‘Little Russian’ symphony and ‘Little Russian’ is the word for ‘Ukrainian’. As for the 1812 overture I can understand why in the present circumstances that could be cancelled. But then you can cancel that any time for me. I can have sympathy with the concert makers in the present circumstances things might appear difficult for them to get an audience for a Tchaikovsky concert

 

[Forster]

The management of this world-famous Welsh, virtuoso, crack classical outfit, have cancelled their forthcoming all Tchaikovsky programme, believing that it would be inappropriate to go ahead with it, given the current situation. Are they right?

The more detailed explanations on the BBC and, probably, on the orchestra's Facebook page (I don't use FB, so I've not looked) shed more light.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60684374

I don't know if they're right, tbh

"A member of the orchestra has family directly involved in the Ukraine situation and we are trying to respect that situation during the immediate term.

"There were also two military themed pieces as part of the programme - Marche Slave and 1812 Overture - that we felt were particularly inappropriate at this time.

"We were also made aware at the time that the title Little Russian of Symphony No 2 was deemed offensive to Ukrainians.

"Whilst there are no plans to repeat the Tchaikovsky concert at the moment, we have no plans to change our summer and autumn programmes which contain pieces by Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakof. So, in summary, this is a one-off decision made with the best of intentions."

 

[Art Rock]

More information here.

The decision apparently was based on the nature of the three Tchaikovsky pieces that had been selected (the third one being the Marche Slave, another military-inspired piece). It is stated that "we have no plans to change our summer and autumn programmes which contain pieces by Rachmaninov, Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakov. "

ETA: simulposted with Forster.

 

[Forster]

Perhaps it's "right" for this specific set of circumstances.

 

[HenryPenfold]

Perhaps it's "right" for this specific set of circumstances.

The 1812 overture celebrates a beleaguered nation throwing off the invasion of a despotic, imperialist and more powerful neighbour. As such, perhaps the 1812 should be programmed wherever possible as an ironic poke in the eye for Putin!

 

[HenryPenfold]

More information here.

The decision apparently was based on the nature of the three Tchaikovsky pieces that had been selected (the third one being the Marche Slave, another military-inspired piece). It is stated that "we have no plans to change our summer and autumn programmes which contain pieces by Rachmaninov, Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakov. "

ETA: simulposted with Forster.

The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.

What next from Cardiff? Perhaps …….

"Until Pyotr Tchaikovsky denounces the brutal actions of President Putin, then I'm afraid we consider him an apologist for the regime, which clearly doesn't align with our values here in Cardiff."

 

[HenryPenfold]

More information here.

The decision apparently was based on the nature of the three Tchaikovsky pieces that had been selected (the third one being the Marche Slave, another military-inspired piece). It is stated that "we have no plans to change our summer and autumn programmes which contain pieces by Rachmaninov, Prokofiev and Rimsky-Korsakov. "

ETA: simulposted with Forster.

The fact that they thought about it more, makes it even scarier!

And it's clear they do not understand the meaning of the works in question.

Military inspired!?????

From an American poster on another music forum ……

"The 1812 celebrates the victory over an invading Army. Can't think of anything more appropriate to boost the spirits of the plucky Ukrainians. March Slave was celebrating Pan Slavism, specifically in that case the cause of the Serbians. A little more feeling of Pan Slavism would be welcome in Putins cold heart before he blows up another apartment building. And the Symphony, whatever its title, shows a love of Ukrainian folk music and by extension all of Ukraine. A little more of that would be welcome in the Kremlin."

 

[marlow]

Frankly in the present situation in Ukraine with bombs raining on the city and people dying I can’t raise any great concern about whether or not the people in Cardiff listen to Tchaikovsky or not. I think there are greater issues at stake

 

[HenryPenfold]

Frankly in the present situation in Ukraine with bombs raining on the city and people dying I can't raise any great concern about whether or not the people in Cardiff listen to Tchaikovsky or not. I think there are greater issues at stake

The Cardiff Philharmonic don't agree with you, no matter how much we do.

 

[marlow]

The Cardiff Philharmonic don't agree with you, no matter how much we do.

I think they're free to make their own mind up without my opinion

 

[mikeh375]

If I was a Ukranian muso in the band then I'd be grateful for any gesture of solidarity, no matter how tenuous or inconsistent. The immediate perspective and reality on the ground is what matters right now imv.

 

[HenryPenfold]

If I was a Ukranian muso in the band then I'd be grateful for any gesture of solidarity, no matter how tenuous or inconsistent.

You might. But is it right?

 

[mikeh375]

You might. But is it right?

Yeah, I personally think so Henry. I favour the gesture to the person (and Ukraine) right now as more pressingly important than any ethical dilemna, Tchaik is overdone anyway.
I'd even be happy to see the Cardiff Phil replace the concert with a concert of Ukranian music by contemporary composers seeing that the relative comfort of sitting on an intellectual and ethical fence might disappear for all of us at some point.

 

[HenryPenfold]

Yeah, I personally think so Henry. I favour the gesture to the person (and Ukraine) right now as more pressingly important than any ethical dilemna, Tchaik is overdone anyway.
I'd even be happy to see the Cardiff Phil replace the concert with a concert of Ukranian music by contemporary composers seeing that the relative comfort of sitting on an intellectual and ethical fence might disappear for all of us at some point.

There isn't anything pressingly important concerning the concert programme. Nor is it an 'ethical' question.

The decision has been taken on muddled thinking and ignorance. Now you and I can be excused for such things, but people responsible for managing an orchestra?

 

[mikeh375]

There isn't anything pressingly important concerning the concert programme. Nor is it an 'ethical' question.

The decision has been taken on muddled thinking and ignorance. Now you and I can be excused for such things, but people responsible for managing an orchestra?

My fictitous Ukranian muso might have a different view on the gesture made by a change of programme. Then again, I wonder how many members of the Cardiff Phil approve of the move, I'd guess quite a few, is there any word on that?
Muddled the decision maybe but we all 'feel' the reason for it.

 

[Forster]

There isn't anything pressingly important concerning the concert programme. Nor is it an 'ethical' question.

The decision has been taken on muddled thinking and ignorance. Now you and I can be excused for such things, but people responsible for managing an orchestra?

You obviously think it's not right. What's your thinking?

 

[HenryPenfold]

My fictitous Ukranian muso might have a different view on the gesture made by a change of programme. Then again, I wonder how many members of the Cardiff Phil approve of the move, I'd guess quite a few, is there any word on that?
Muddled the decision maybe but we all 'feel' the reason for it.

We need to come up with something a little better than that. Gergiev's situation was properly thought through and although I personally would prefer him not to have been dismissed, I accept what has been done and have no quarrel. The difference with the Cardiff management, is the thinking is weak and thoroughly misguided.

 

[mikeh375]

We need to come up with something a little better than that. Gergiev's situation was properly thought through and although I personally would prefer him not to have been dismissed, I accept what has been done and have no quarrel. The difference with the Cardiff management, is the thinking is weak and thoroughly misguided.

I don't feel the need to come up with anything better in the face of Putler's aggression Henry but have at it. As Forster has asked, what is your thinking? (I didn't follow the Gergiev thread because I was glad that he was sacked, just as I'm pleased Abramovich is finally being sanctioned by us here in the UK).