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I get enough enjoyment out of listening to music without drugs or alcohol. Why are you someone would want to deaden their senses with them is quite beyond me unless it's to help them forget the dreadful reality they think they are living in.
Why don't you read posts more carefully? Where did I say that I want to deaden my senses [etc]?

My post that you quote was merely to remind those who'd wandered off topic what the thread title is about, and that morality has nothing to do with it.
 

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Not all drugs impair the brain. Alcohol, opioids, amphetamines, barbiturate's, certainly do.

But cannabis and psychedelics do not. At least in the way I believe you are referring to. They temporarily suppress certain parts of the brain, but enhance others.
There is real concern and some worrisome evidence about the effect of cannabis on the developing teenage brain. There is also evidence of long term effects on things such as verbal memory in adults with frequent use. Not to mention concern with heavy use by people with mental disorders.

However, occasional use in adults does not appear to cause much in the way of serious long-term effects, contrary to increasing evidence concerning alcohol.
 

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As some would say, "everything in moderation", or - more medically - "the dose makes the poison".

I figure some of you may have personal experience with friends or family members, but alcohol is one of the worst drugs as far as dependence goes. Only the abuse of prescription benzodiazepines (i.e. Xanax, Valium) are as bad when it comes to physical dependence - quitting alcohol should be done with the help of a doctor, because unlike other, even "harder" drugs, such as cocaine, MDMA, or even painkillers - quitting alcohol can have serious health consequences up to death when done unsupervised.

The enhancing effects of drugs on music are relatively well-known, though. Even those attending a classical concert may enjoy a few glasses of wine beforehand. of course, this is to say nothing of music which is almost explicitly written to be consumed with drugs....
 

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Why don't you read posts more carefully? Where did I say that I want to deaden my senses [etc]?

My post that you quote was merely to remind those who'd wandered off topic what the thread title is about, and that morality has nothing to do with it.
With respect it may have been you need to write your posts more carefully to avoid misunderstanding. I also need to write my post more carefully as I was actually meaning in general terms rather than you personally. So apologies for any misunderstanding
 

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There is real concern and some worrisome evidence about the effect of cannabis on the developing teenage brain. There is also evidence of long term effects on things such as verbal memory in adults with frequent use. Not to mention concern with heavy use by people with mental disorders.

However, occasional use in adults does not appear to cause much in the way of serious long-term effects, contrary to increasing evidence concerning alcohol.
Having worked with people who suffer psychotic episodes due to suspected use of cannabis I would advise people to avoid it
 

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Interesting. When we're very young trips like that really surprise us (from within ourselves, and the realization that it might've been there all the time before). When we get old we try to avoid such intense 'surprises' (I know I do). I just want feel a little differently when I revisit a listening destination. I don't want to lose all my normal references.
The effects of LSD are unpredictable and very individual to different people. In my case, when I was a teen, the principal effect on appreciation seems to have been to strip away all habits of thought and prejudices about music and to concentrate my attention on what I was hearing. I think it made me more open and objective in a way. But then I was never really closed off from classical music so reawakening to it would surely have occurred in any case.
 

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The effects of LSD are unpredictable and very individual to different people.
I never performed while taking LSD, but one of my friends, a very prominent, well-known musician, who has held a major orchestra position for years once performed Mahler Sym #4 [major orchestra] while tripping on acid....Wow!! I can't imagine - that is a demanding part....you've got to get and keep your head in the game....

Of course, musicians have been performing under the influence of alcohol for as long as music has existed....
all sorts of drugs have been prevalent too, esp in jazz and rock....

Sadly, some very talented major symphony musicians have essentially "drank themselves out of a job"....
 

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I never performed while taking LSD, but one of my friends, a very prominent, well-known musician, who has held a major orchestra position for years once performed Mahler Sym #4 [major orchestra] while tripping on acid....Wow!! I can't imagine - that is a demanding part....you've got to get and keep your head in the game....

Of course, musicians have been performing under the influence of alcohol for as long as music has existed....
all sorts of drugs have been prevalent too, esp in jazz and rock....

Sadly, some very talented major symphony musicians have essentially "drank themselves out of a job"....
In 1970 Doc Ellis of the Pittsburgh Pirates famously pitched a no-hitter while tripping on LSD. There's nothing surprising about this. The drug doesn't affect coordination or decision making in any direct way. If one loves doing what one is doing and is happy and willing to concentrate on it, LSD might even improve ones performance. But it's unpredictable. If ones mind is not in the right place, one might have no ability to tie ones shoes and might end up in a hospital with a full psychotic break instead. I assume your friend got through it okay than?
 

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I don't do drugs, smoke, or drink alcohol. I spent most of my adult life as an overweight man and would like to get below 200 pounds now that my doctor is saying that blood pressure, cholesterol, and sugar levels are running high (they call it pre-diabetes). The only problem is that, as with my taste in music, I have a sweet-tooth and I love Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff as much as I love cake, cookies, pie, etc.

I never had a taste for drugs, alcohol, and smoking, though. I was always inclined to spend limited funds on records and then later CDs. Why buy a six-pack or a bottle of wine and have it for a short time, when I can get a Beethoven or Mozart CD and have it for the rest of my life?

Someone here identified classical music as a drug of choice and with me it has been something of an addiction. If some of you are like me then you have a wife or partner who has said many times, "How many CDs do you need?" I just say that "I'm a collector." Apart from psychological research indicating how music impacts chemicals in the brain, the "feel-good" neurotransmitters, music has always served me well as a reminder that there is always some beauty in this weary world.
 

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In 1970 Doc Ellis of the Pittsburgh Pirates famously pitched a no-hitter while tripping on LSD. There's nothing surprising about this. The drug doesn't affect coordination or decision making in any direct way. If one loves doing what one is doing and is happy and willing to concentrate on it, LSD might even improve ones performance. But it's unpredictable. If ones mind is not in the right place, one might have no ability to tie ones shoes and might end up in a hospital with a full psychotic break instead. I assume your friend got through it okay than?
It's true that LSD doesn't cause physical impairment....to me, the issue would be sensory distraction...your mind would be on overload while you're trying to concentrate on a very demanding process that requires full attention...playing while on LSD mIght be a real kick for a relatively easy, undemanding part...but Mahler 4?? That's no cakewalk, there are some challenges, for sure. He did fine....i heard the concert....sounded terrific.
 

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I get enough enjoyment out of listening to music without drugs or alcohol. Why are you someone would want to deaden their senses with them is quite beyond me unless it's to help them forget the dreadful reality they think they are living in.
They want the most out of life and they'll chance it. It's usually ok, but there's always exceptions. What are the odds?

What do you miss if you refrain?
 

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They want the most out of life and they'll chance it. It's usually ok, but there's always exceptions. What are the odds?

What do you miss if you refrain?
The question is not, or should not be, what one misses by not using any sort of mind-altering agents. It should be whether one loses or diminishes one's mental/judgemental qualities and a crisp, clear mind by using such agents. What am I missing if I refrain from tobacco or gambling?
 

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The question is not, or should not be, what one misses by not using any sort of mind-altering agents. It should be whether one loses or diminishes one's mental/judgemental qualities and a crisp, clear mind by using such agents. What am I missing if I refrain from tobacco or gambling?
Lung cancer and poverty maybe? There are quite a number of prominent musicians who have succumbed to these various complaints.
 

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And since we're keyed to 'repopulate' the world - men need the variations in sexual experience as they get older. Light drugs do that.
Is it because we wish to "repopulate the world" that we have sex, and like it, or is it because sex feels (or ought to feel) really good? In animals, it is a Basic Instinct. In humans, not so much--the desire for pleasure far outweighs instinctive drive, hence the widespread use of counter-pregnancy agents/methods among both males and females.
 

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Exactly. One loses nothing of real value by abstaining from body-altering or mind-altering agents.
Drugs and carcinogens might re-educate our thymuses so that cancer-recognizing immune cells aren't destroyed by mistake. Our thymus which we inherited long ago is a fascinating evolutionary development. In its haphazard way it gets the job done, AND it changes through the decades to address the threat of cancer, until we get so old that we're of no use to our species.

We just don't know enough about the non-stop complex chemistry - and so many relationships and interactions. But I'm not getting my hopes up about a safe stimulation of thymus function..
 

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Is it because we wish to "repopulate the world" that we have sex, and like it, or is it because sex feels (or ought to feel) really good? In animals, it is a Basic Instinct. In humans, not so much--the desire for pleasure far outweighs instinctive drive, hence the widespread use of counter-pregnancy agents/methods among both males and females.
Heh, whether it's 'instinct', the way we're keyed by NS or the pleasure principle, men need the variations in sexual experience as they get older.
 
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