[HenryPenfold]

I'd like to say that the OP does not 'own' the thread or the discussion and as such has no superior claim on the proceedings than anyone else.

May I politely, but firmly suggest that the moderators reappraise their position on this?

With respect

Henry Penfold of Lower Clapton London

 

[Bulldog]

I feel that if the OP considers the thread derailed, I have no problem with the request to close it down.

 

[Art Rock]

While the OP does not own the thread, he/she did start it and otherwise it would not exist in this form. If he/she would prefer it closed (often because of derailment), we will usually oblige. The thread is not deleted, and the posts are still there for everyone to read. Closing a thread at the OP's request does not mean that the subject cannot be discussed anymore - anyone can start a new thread on the subject (or whatever the subject had become).

 

[mmsbls]

That's a good suggestion to discuss. I agree that the OP does not own the thread, and as in the case where someone asks that we delete a post, we don't necessarily agree to do so. Actually I'll say that I don't necessarily agree to do so. The request does not occur often, but it does affect others at TC rather than just the OP or poster.

My view has generally been that there must either be a compelling reason to delete a post or close a thread or the post deletion or thread closure should affect few or no people. Given that such requests are rare, the moderators have not really discussed this issue. It probably makes sense to have a discussion.

 

[HenryPenfold]

While the OP does not own the thread, he/she did start it and otherwise it would not exist in this form. If he/she would prefer it closed (often because of derailment), we will usually oblige. The thread is not deleted, and the posts are still there for everyone to read. Closing a thread at the OP's request does not mean that the subject cannot be discussed anymore - anyone can start a new thread on the subject (or whatever the subject had become).

I think the logic here is a tad mixed. Moderators close threads when they become dysfunctional - no problem. But if that's not the reason, then the thread is closed on the whim or caprice of the OP - and that's wrong.

 

[SanAntone]

I think the logic here is a tad mixed. Moderators close threads when they become dysfunctional - no problem. But if that's not the reason, then the thread is closed on the whim or caprice of the OP - and that's wrong.

I asked that a thread that I began to be closed because it had become off-topic and mired in toxic back-and-forth posts. I think the only reason a OP would ask to close his thread is because it has drifted far from his intended subject and/or the posts have become too negative.

I fully support the idea that an OP can request and be granted this action of closing a thread he began.

 

[Taggart]

Any member can request that a thread be closed because it is seriously off topic, toxic, personal or has run its course. This is usually done via a report. Sometimes, by the time we see the report, the thread may have corrected itself in which case, we do nothing. If the thread is really toxic, we will close it either permanently or temporarily.. The OP has no special rights in such a case. If we felt the topic was interesting, we might re-open the thread with a message to keep things nice.

Equally, some of game type threads e.g. Baker's Dozen have been closed because the OP feels there is no more to say or doesn't want to manage the game. In that case, we may close that thread but suggest that others may wish to continue to maintain the game by starting their own thread.

 

[HenryPenfold]

I asked that a thread that I began to be closed because it had become off-topic and mired in toxic back-and-forth posts. I think the only reason a OP would ask to close his thread is because it has drifted far from his intended subject and/or the posts have become too negative.

I fully support the idea that an OP can request and be granted this action of closing a thread he began.

More mixed logic, if with respect, you don't mind me putting it that way.

If the discussion has become off-topic, toxic and otherwise mired, then the mods must intervene, not the OP.

 

[HenryPenfold]

Any member can request that a thread be closed because it is seriously off topic, toxic, personal or has run its course. This is usually done via a report. Sometimes, by the time we see the report, the thread may have corrected itself in which case, we do nothing. If the thread is really toxic, we will close it either permanently or temporarily.. The OP has no special rights in such a case. If we felt the topic was interesting, we might re-open the thread with a message to keep things nice.

Equally, some of game type threads e.g. Baker's Dozen have been closed because the OP feels there is no more to say or doesn't want to manage the game. In that case, we may close that thread but suggest that others may wish to continue to maintain the game by starting their own thread.

Who is the adjudicator, the moderator or the OP?

 

[SanAntone]

More mixed logic, if with respect, you don't mind me putting it that way.

If the discussion has become off-topic, toxic and otherwise mired, then the mods must intervene, not the OP.

The Mods may not be aware unless they are notified, which is what I did and requested that they consider closing the thread if in their judgment they agreed that the thread had become toxic. I did not want the thread to go on any longer and since I started it I felt that pulling the plug would be the best outcome.

I am wondering why you are so activated over this?

 

[HenryPenfold]

The Mods may not be aware unless they are notified, which is what I did and requested that they consider closing the thread if in their judgment they agreed that the thread had become toxic.

Make them aware by all means, then let the appropriate people take the executive decisions.

 

[Forster]

I see no reason why an OP shouldn't ask that a thread be closed, but as it only the mods who can actually choose to close it, and they usually give a reason, "closed at the request of the OP" seems to suggest otherwise. Better to give a justification (topic run its course/too much abuse/off-topic).

 

[mmsbls]

I think all the moderators agree that we make the final decision. If someone wishes their thread be deleted simply because they don't like certain posts in the thread, we may very well refuse.

 

[HenryPenfold]

I see no reason why an OP shouldn't ask that a thread be closed, but as it only the mods who can actually choose to close it, and they usually give a reason, "closed at the request of the OP" seems to suggest otherwise. Better to give a justification (topic run its course/too much abuse/off-topic).

This has gone 'straw man'.

No-one is saying the OP can't make such a request. What is being said is that when the OP makes such a request, the thread should not be closed per se.

C'mon, we're all intelligent!

 

[SanAntone]

Make them aware by all means, then let the appropriate people take the executive decisions.

Which is exactly what happens.

 

[HenryPenfold]

I think all the moderators agree that we make the final decision. If someone wishes their thread be deleted simply because they don't like certain posts in the thread, we may very well refuse.

If the reason is that an OP "simply don't like certain posts" wouldn't this be refused point blank? Seems like capricious and/or whimsical reasons that the mods are responding to.

 

[HenryPenfold]

Which is exactly what happens.

No, it didn't regarding the Hurwitz thread. The mods relied on the simple reason that it was requested by the OP.

What bit of all this simple critical reasoning is it, that you can't get your head around?

 

[SanAntone]

No, it didn't regarding the Hurwitz thread. The mods relied on the simple reason that it was requested by the OP.

What bit of all this simple critical reasoning is it, that you can't get your head around?

I entered that thread and witnessed the toxic atmosphere and quickly left. It may have calmed down but it was a waste dump for a number of pages. The Mods may have been delayed in their reaction, but I have no doubt that they did not simply close the thread because the OP requested it with no reasoning.

I'm done. Think what you want.

 

[Forster]

This has gone 'straw man'.

No-one is saying the OP can't make such a request. What is being said is that when the OP makes such a request, the thread should not be closed per se.

C'mon, we're all intelligent!

Why straw man? I was agreeing that, given a statement that says the thread was closed at the request of the OP, it belies the fact that the mods will have discussed and decided, for whatever reason, not merely, as you say, just because the OP asked.

 

[Art Rock]

The thread starter asked to close the thread, giving the reasons why. I looked at the reasons and the thread, and decided to oblige.

As I said in my first reply, "we will usually oblige". Not automatically and not always. It is the call of the moderator who receives the request, and if we find that the request is reasonable, we will close the thread. But in our experience thread starters do not just ask us for deletion - they usually have strong arguments.

Anyway, the moderating team is discussing this further as posted by mmsbls.