Classical Music Forum banner
201 - 220 of 249 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,011 Posts
Sorry about MTP for the St Matthew Passion by the way -- that was unintended. It reminds me of once when I abbreviated the Concertgebouw as CGB and someone who speaks Dutch told me that this was just ridiculous!

Right, so people just made cuts in the mid 1950s like that. In fact I rather what he does with the music at the end, from Am Abend, da es kuhle war -- someone once told me that this is what was played at his funeral, I don't know if it's true or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,461 Posts
I can appreciate different approaches to Bach, but my favorite version is Herreweghe's 1984 recording. In general I think the HIP movement has been pretty successful when it comes to Baroque music, and I tend to lean towards that approach though not exclusively.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
to Brahmsianhorn -> (Mengelberg) - Yes, the Dutchman could sometimes have that EFFECT on a listener; the best of his recordings can be engrossing, and it would be somewhat difficult to argue that the Concertgebouw of his time was NOT at it's greatest, even w/o the benefit of Stereo, multi-channel microphones, etc. There are very good REASONS why the legacies of Mengelberg & Furtwangler … specifically in the SMP (and other repertoire, of course) … have stood the test of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
BTW, there was a widely-lauded (in High Fidelity, and/or Stereo Review) St. Matthew Passion, in the hands of Karl Richter/DGG … decades-ago. It included Irmgard Seefried, Dietrich F-D, plus the Munich musicians - does anyone know about it, or has anyone listened to it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
BTW, there was a widely-lauded (in High Fidelity, and/or Stereo Review) St. Matthew Passion, in the hands of Karl Richter/DGG … decades-ago. It included Irmgard Seefried, Dietrich F-D, plus the Munich musicians - does anyone know about it, or has anyone listened to it?
Sure. It's been available almost continuously during the CD era, in several incarnations.

It's a pretty commonly recommended recording, but I don't care for it. It has nothing to do with its lack of HIP-ness. I just don't hear much drama in Richter's conducting, and his soloists are pretty variable. The worst, unfortunately, is mezzo Hertha Töpper, and the mezzo has a lot of very important singing in the St. Matthew; her "Erbarme dich" leaves a big hole in the performance.

Perversely, I actually prefer the recording Richter made in 1979, shortly before he died, for its stronger soloists, particularly Janet Baker, who has everything that Töpper lacks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,164 Posts
BTW, there was a widely-lauded (in High Fidelity, and/or Stereo Review) St. Matthew Passion, in the hands of Karl Richter/DGG … decades-ago. It included Irmgard Seefried, Dietrich F-D, plus the Munich musicians - does anyone know about it, or has anyone listened to it?
This was the version that introduced me to the St Matthew years ago. Richter is far more vital than in his later version (in which his speeds are slower and he also uses distracting harpsichord) and D F-D is in superb voice in the bass arias and Haeflinger as the evangelist. Heaflinger actually sings the tenor arias too and although the women are not so good they are adequate. I have it on CD but would advise a listen to the approach (which was the more vital of the old fashioned type of approaches) before purchase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
-> Bill Kasimer & DavidA - Thanks, and looks like there are two, very-DIFFERENT characterizations of what Richter achieved; i.e., Bill much-prefers the later Richter, and conversely, DavidA prefers the earlier one! It's a shame to hear that Ms. Topper was disappointing; from what I remember of her reputation, she usually rated high marks (although can't remember the sources of them). …. Thus, I suppose when we consider MODERN recordings, there's not a clear-cut favorite? … since WM and WF, of the oldest ones, deserve a place of their own?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Well, BTW, am a bit of a "newcomer" to this entire site - so, has there, in the past, been any discussions 'bout Bach's "St. John Passion"? It was a while (yeah, a LONG one, haha) ago, that I bought the old Seraphim set, with Karl Forster and the very-remarkable, but short-lived tenor - Fritz Wunderlich.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
-> Bill Kasimer & DavidA - Thanks, and looks like there are two, very-DIFFERENT characterizations of what Richter achieved; i.e., Bill much-prefers the later Richter, and conversely, DavidA prefers the earlier one!
I should tell you, though, that I don't know anyone else who prefers the later Richter recording. I know a number of people who aren't particularly fond of the earlier one, but that doesn't mean that they prefer the later. There was actually another Richter recording made between those two, but it's never been widely available outside of Japan. I heard it once and remember little about it, except that I culled it shortly afterwards.

Thus, I suppose when we consider MODERN recordings, there's not a clear-cut favorite?
Certainly not for work of the scope of the St. Matthew. But if you're looking for a modern instrument recording in good sound, you might consider Rilling's Hanssler recording or Solti's on Decca. Another one I like is Corboz's - I find it a bit tame, but the soloists are really fantastic.

since WM and WF, of the oldest ones, deserve a place of their own?
Yes, but I'd never recommend either to someone who doesn't already own several versions,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,164 Posts
-> Bill Kasimer & DavidA - Thanks, and looks like there are two, very-DIFFERENT characterizations of what Richter achieved; i.e., Bill much-prefers the later Richter, and conversely, DavidA prefers the earlier one! It's a shame to hear that Ms. Topper was disappointing; from what I remember of her reputation, she usually rated high marks (although can't remember the sources of them). …. Thus, I suppose when we consider MODERN recordings, there's not a clear-cut favorite? … since WM and WF, of the oldest ones, deserve a place of their own?
Topper us a bit plummy I must say. Baker is far the best singer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,164 Posts
Just thinking of the versions I have of what I consider one of the greatest of all works of music ever written:

Rectangle Font Electric blue Pattern Signature


Version that introduced me to the work. Richter at his best in traditional version before he got too lugubrious

Font Poster Art Paper Reptile


Romantic version of the work as Karajan used to conduct on Good Friday. Indulgence

Cross Crucifix Religious item Artifact Art


Superb singing but feel Gardiner just misses out on the spiritual dimension somewhat

Organism Font Art Event Monochrome


Very fine first version from Herreweghe

Nature Carnivore Organism Dog breed Font


Harnoncourt puts a lifetimes experience into the work - might be the best all-round bet?

Continued next post...........
 
201 - 220 of 249 Posts
Top