[betterthanfine]

I only wonder if she has enough voice for them. I like Piau in Handel, but I'm told the voice is quite small.

Elsa Dreisig has recorded them with piano accompaniment on her album Morgen and I believe an orchestral version is in the pipeline. It's definitely one I'd be interested to hear.

On record, I didn't have issues with the size of her voice. I imagine live would possibly a different matter.

Very much looking forward to Dreisig with orchestra!

 

[betterthanfine]

They are all famous not just Karajan (more Karajan bashing? zzzzzz)

One doesn't interpret these songs, they are to be sung. And Janowitz sings like a silver-throated angel. If all you hear is 'pretty singing' then this sort of music is not really for you.

He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing? Janowitz doesn't do much for me either, to be honest. Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.

 

[Woodduck]

He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing? Janowitz doesn't do much for me either, to be honest. Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.

I find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything she sings, and that there is no music that someone else can't make more interesting. Its worth something to make the Four Last Songs sound as beautiful as she does, but more is possible. I'll take Schwarzkopf in either of her recordings - the earlier being superior vocally, the latter more detailed in interpretation - and Norman, in one of her finest efforts.

 

[HenryPenfold]

He said the accompaniment was ideal, how is that Karajan bashing?

Dead giveaway - immediately referring to fame when Karajan is involved rather than so many other more relevant aspects.

Avoiding the word 'interpreting', since you seem to hate it so much, I'd say she could have done more with the words.

Hatred is a very strong negative emotion and I don't hate, never mind hate so much and I have never used the word in any of my many posts. That aside, I think that virtually anyone could do better with any song.

 

[Tsaraslondon]

I never said just sung. I said they are to be sung. Singing must have feeling, emotion and relevance to the words. All of which Janowitz's performance has. In my opinion, to talk of interpreting and 'disembodied purity' is highfalutin. I also think that such views are a barrier to classical music and contributes its decline.

Well that's me put in my place, though I'm afraid I can't quite see how explaining my preferences and impressions of a performance is "highfalutin" and "a barrier to classical music", which is contributing to its decline. Of course the songs are to be sung, but your assertion implies, pardon me if I misunderstand, that interpretation should be avoided; that a singer should just sing the notes, observing expression marks, but not worrying too much about why they are there, or what they might mean. But any performance involves the performer interpreting what is on the printed page and trying to understand the composer's or the writer's intentions. That is why two performances of the same piece can vary so much.

Now when it comes to Janowitz's performance of the Strauss songs, I find I like it less now than I used to do because I don't hear the "feeling, emotion and relevance to the words" you do. For me it is beautiful but marmoreal. A lot of people like marble. Nothing wrong with that. You may disagree with me. We all have different ears after all, but I see nothing wrong with discussing our impressions of different performances or our preferences, and lovers of classical singing will discuss their preferences and impressions of different interpretations ad infinitum. I don't see how doing so contributes to the decline in classical music.

 

[HenryPenfold]

I find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything she sings, and that there is no music that someone else can't make more interesting.

I suppose someone might find that Janowitz sounds the same in everything, even though I might find such an opinion hard to understand. Some may even find they don't care for the superb Martha Mödl, as hard to believe as that may be. This only shows that people can be wrong. Me, I mean.

Its worth something to make the Four Last Songs sound as beautiful as she does, but more is possible.

I'll take Schwarzkopf in either of her recordings - the earlier being superior vocally, the latter more detailed in interpretation - and Norman, in one of her finest efforts.

Happily, I have the recordings of Schwarkopf and Norman, and along with RogerX's excellent recommendation of Fleming, I shall listen further.

 

[HenryPenfold]

" ...........I see nothing wrong with discussing our impressions of different performances or our preferences and lovers of classical singing will discuss their preferences and impressions of different interpretations ad infinitum. I don't see how doing so contributes to the decline in classical music."

Agreed, wouldn't deny that. But that's not what I was reacting to. I feel that when we become hifalutin is the problem. All the interpretation, achingly poetic, piercingly poignant et al is a barrier to the man in the street and gives classical music an elitist feel. This I think is a barrier that may be a reason why we are a declining race ............

Seems to be more of an issue with opera and song, IMVHO.

 

[Tsaraslondon]

Agreed, wouldn't deny that. But that's not what I was reacting to. I feel that when we become hifalutin is the problem. All the interpretation, achingly poetic, piercingly poignant et al is a barrier to the man in the street and gives classical music an elitist feel. This I think is a barrier that may be a reason why we are a declining race ............

Seems to be more of an issue with opera and song, IMVHO.

How many "men in the street" visit this forum I wonder?

In any case I've never been a believer in dumbing down. When I was first getting into classical music and opera we didn't have the internet, but I learned a great deal not only from my peers, who clearly had a great deal more knowledge than I had, but by reading magazines like Opera and Gramophone and the now defunct Records and Recording. I'm afraid I don't see what is wrong with calling a performance "achingly poetic" or "piercingly poignant" if that is what the writer feels about them.

 

[HenryPenfold]

How many "men in the street" visit this forum I wonder?

Most of us are 'men in the street' on this forum, I would say.

In any case I've never been a believer in dumbing down.

What do you see as 'dumbing down'?

When I was first getting into classical music and opera we didn't have the internet, but I learned a great deal not only from my peers, who clearly had a great deal more knowledge than I had, but by reading magazines like Opera and Gramophone and the now defunct Records and Recording.

Pretty similar to my experience, too.

I'm afraid I don't see what is wrong with calling a performance "achingly poetic" or "piercingly poignant" if that is what the writer feels about them.

I too have no truck with anyone 'feeling that way'

 

[Brahmsianhorn]

I never said just sung. I said they are to be sung. Singing must have feeling, emotion and relevance to the words. All of which Janowitz's performance has. In my opinion, to talk of interpreting and 'disembodied purity' is highfalutin. I also think that such views are a barrier to classical music and contributes its decline.

I own that Janowitz/Karajan recording - the accompanying orchestral works on that disc are sublime - and I agree with a lot of the comments. I don't hear any feeling or connection to the music.

In addition to both Schwarzkopfs and Norman/Masur, I also like Della Casa/Böhm and Jurinac/Busch. The Flagstad is tough listening, even for a dedicated Furtwänglerian like me, but musically it is among the best.

 

[Barbebleu]

Re Janowitz. Sometimes it is enough to have a beautiful voice!

 

[Rogerx]

Lucia Popp - Strauss' Vier Letzte Lieder - Im abendrot
My guilty pleasure, I have ones made a tape from these clips.

 

[MAS]

I also like a version with Margaret Price with Sawallisch at at Rome RAI (not an orchestra I'd immediately associate with Strauss). I've always loved M. Price and hear soaring tones suit Strauss's music very well and she as a Lieder singer does not neglect the text.