[Luchesi]

Election and perfection are inconsequentional to one another. The peak of preference is never perfect. Only faith can support a belief in musical perfection. Musical perfection is an imposition of religious attributes.

That's quite an absolutist view, but surprisingly, I tend to agree with it - now that you've written it out like that. Impressive.

 

[Luchesi]

There is a rawness to every opinion that is inescapable despite one's studied predilection.

Rawness. Yes, thanks for putting my notion about this into words. I have trouble posting without sounding condescending. I try to help, but often it just raises tensions.

 

[Luchesi]

The title is impossibly demanding and the OP is missing -- not a perfect thread! Anyway I'll just plunge forward.🏊‍♀️ There are short piano pieces that come close to perfection. Nevertheless I feel something more is needed. For big orchestral works the one that stands out is Beethoven's 3rd, the Eroica. It's an epic work maintains a high level, even for Beethoven, over four movements. Yet the details matter too, things that pique our attention. For example, the opening theme in E-Flay Major has a famous dip to the note D-Flat -- what my teacher called "where the unexpected becomes the inevitable." Beethoven often makes such impish moves. Not only does he wriggle out of this one successfully but it adumbrates harmonic events later in the movement. Perhaps we might call that delayed perfection.

Excellent post. Food for thought. My thanks to Ethereality for starting this thread which is turning out to be so helpful for communicating challenging concepts, as I try to read between the lines (while knowing the past posts of my favorite posters).

It's been 20 years since I last heard the Eroica. I frequently listen to the Eroica Variations to try to understand how his mind worked in that form. So remarkable, using such obvious material (just look at the score and what he achieves artistically with so little (in my opinion)).

After 20 more years of listening experience how will I be twisted and turned by a new listen to the Symphony? LvB was so young. I need to make time for it. It's just a happy accident that I put off listening to it for so many years, now I’ll get my reward.

 

[Luchesi]

if its any good to you, I think you make good points. Dont worry about sounding condescending, just say what you have to say

Thanks, there's so much to admire and respect about our members and I don't say it enough.

Can imperfection in music be a good thing? I really don't want perfection in jazz performances (improvisations). I want to hear what comes from those human minds with so much experience!, how they cover their slight mistakes. That to me is what enlightens me and my playing.

Added:
Years ago Leonard Feather mentioned that he didn't know a jazz improviser who could remain fresh for more than 16 minutes. After that they tend to repeat themselves musically. And this has stuck with me all these years… it was good for me and it was bad for me..

 

[Luchesi]

there's an old saying among jazz players...."when you make a mistake, repeat it"

then you work with it and "pitch your way out of a jam" to borrow a term from baseball. And to borrow another baseball term, "When you're swinging for the fences, sometimes you are going to wiff"

I always encourage people I play with to take chances. Even if you bust, there's something about just trying that raises the energy of the group. And as a performer, part of the mental preparation is to accept that mistakes are going to happen, so its best to just put it behind you and get on with it quickly when it does happen, and if you perform enough, it surely will.

sort of like the old joke about there being just two kinds of performers: those that get nervous and liars

“I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world and fool enough to think that’s what I’ll find.” 'Such a pretty song as sung by Karen Carpenter (with her range!) - by Richard Carpenter and two others.
I can't get it out of my head now...