Maybe one of the box-like thinkers around here can explain it. You said that the rules are "seemingly" arbitrary, so I'm sure that there's some sort of box-like logic that you're missing.I'm reading a book on harmony and I got to the section on raised sixths and sevenths in minor keys. Here are some of the seemingly arbitrary rules it gives:
1. If V-VI, raise the 7th
2. If V6-VI, don't raise the 7th
3. If V6-IV, then whether the 7th is raised or not depends on whether the bass rises or falls
4. If V6-IV6, 7th always unaltered
5. If V6-II6, only raise if bass rises
6. If IV6 moves to V6 or VII, then always raise 6th and seventh
7. If IV6 moves to III, III6, V, or VI, then don't raise the third of IV6
It's a lot easier to digest and remember rules when there is some kind of logic or principle behind them. But I fail to see the logic in these rules? Can anybody help?
Yes that's why I asked this question in the first place. And what is "box-like" logic exactly?You said that the rules are "seemingly" arbitrary, so I'm sure that there's some sort of box-like logic that you're missing.
Where did you get all these rules? I learned to write in minor mode without memorizing any such list of rules. If it's important to you, I suggest writing a four part setting for each of these instances. Maybe the rationales will be clearer once you do that?I'm reading a book on harmony and I got to the section on raised sixths and sevenths in minor keys. Here are some of the seemingly arbitrary rules it gives:
1. If V-VI, raise the 7th
2. If V6-VI, don't raise the 7th
3. If V6-IV, then whether the 7th is raised or not depends on whether the bass rises or falls
4. If V6-IV6, 7th always unaltered
5. If V6-II6, only raise if bass rises
6. If IV6 moves to V6 or VII, then always raise 6th and seventh
7. If IV6 moves to III, III6, V, or VI, then don't raise the third of IV6
It's a lot easier to digest and remember rules when there is some kind of logic or principle behind them. But I fail to see the logic in these rules? Can anybody help?
Roger Sessions "Harmonic Practice" Chapter 4Where did you get all these rules?
In very simple terms, it's all about the notes you would use in the ascending and descending melodic minor scale.I'm reading a book on harmony and I got to the section on raised sixths and sevenths in minor keys. Here are some of the seemingly arbitrary rules it gives:
1. If V-VI, raise the 7th
2. If V6-VI, don't raise the 7th
3. If V6-IV, then whether the 7th is raised or not depends on whether the bass rises or falls
4. If V6-IV6, 7th always unaltered
5. If V6-II6, only raise if bass rises
6. If IV6 moves to V6 or VII, then always raise 6th and seventh
7. If IV6 moves to III, III6, V, or VI, then don't raise the third of IV6
It's a lot easier to digest and remember rules when there is some kind of logic or principle behind them. But I fail to see the logic in these rules? Can anybody help?
I see. Keep in mind, Sessions wrote music that was bat-***** crazy.Roger Sessions "Harmonic Practice" Chapter 4
Paranoid much?That makes sense about the ascending & descending melodic minor scale, being presented out-of-context by the "confused" poster, to see what kind of responses it would attract for the predators out there.
Otherwise the linear notes in the CD release of your work will describe it as "modal."Paranoid much?
To the OP: Probably the most important thing to remember about writing in the minor mode is that when so doing, one finds oneself borrowing liberally from the relative major. I suspect that if one is aware of which mode is in play at any given moment, those rules will take care of themselves. Trust to your musical sense levelrat.
Yes, trust your own perceptions, and don't let anyone's comments, such as above, affect that.Paranoid much? Trust to your musical sense levelrat.
Musical sense can take you a long way, that is for sure. But you can save a lot of time by learning established music theory rules since often your musical sense is instinctively yearning towards those rules anyway. So instead of trial and error or composing in the dark, you already know what musical effect you want to produce and how to produce it.Yes, trust your own perceptions, and don't let anyone's comments, such as above, affect that.
I don't like the implications of what you're saying, but if you want to follow rules, go right ahead.Musical sense can take you a long way, that is for sure. But you can save a lot of time by learning established music theory rules since often your musical sense is instinctively yearning towards those rules anyway. So instead of trial and error or composing in the dark, you already know what musical effect you want to produce and how to produce it.
What specific implications? And an important distinction isnt that you should ALWAYS follow the rules, but that you should be aware of why the rules exist and what happens if you don't follow them. Then it is up to your discretion whether following or breaking the rules will work better.I don't like the implications of what you're saying, but if you want to follow rules, go right ahead.
I also resent that implication. I know all my scales, and could probably play rings around both of you.Remember that in the learning of rules and especially practicing the techniques (as one would scales etc. on an instrument), you also find out about your own artistry and creativity. This is a point so often missed in discussion over compositional technique and yet it is so important to recognise this key benefit which aids in the development of an individual approach, if one is autodidactic enough to recognise, assimilate and then develop what they learn.
