I discovered Classical music when I was very young, due to the fact that it was what my parents would listen to.

I remember listening to pop music on the radio, in the sixties. But I much peferred classical. For my 21st birthday my parents gave me a record player, everyone else gave me record tokens. As I lived just outside Leeds at the time, I went into the town where there was a very good record shop (unfotunately I cannot remember the name), it sold mostly classical music. Hence my Brandenberg Concertos, my Mozart including his horn concerto and Ashkenazy playing Chopin. My liking for classical music is still just as strong, I am not an expert but I do know what I like.


Margaret

 

...a very good record shop (unfotunately I cannot remember the name), it sold mostly classical music...

How strange-- a record shop selling mostly classical music...? LOL

In some larger US cities you could find in some of the bigger music shops a "classical room" which usually had a fairly wide selection. I noticed in New Orleans, Houston and Dallas but by the early-90s they started getting smaller and smaller, and then finally cut out altogether by around 1999. I can't even purchase classical music except online now.

~josh

 

Yes it was strange, a shop selling mostly classical music. There are very few places here in Milton Keynes in the Uk that sell music at all, let alone classical music. As you say it seems to be that online is the main place for buying music.


Margaret

 

Hmm, great topic ... classical music discovered me actually as I was too young to really appreciate what I was listening too. I grew up in a 100% classical musical family - parents played for years in the Scandinavian Symphony (Detroit) for eons and later upon moving to California in the Long Beach Phil - they would have to drag us kids to rehearsals, which I can distinctly remember. Dad played the double B flat concert tuba, Mom the violin. My sister acquired the viola and I started out on piano. At home we would play together often.

In the mornings we woke to Coffee Cup Concert on the FM radio ... Every weekend we either attended an orchestral concert or other classical music event. By the time I was 12, my focus changed to classical church organ, a chosen profession I remain very active in to this day nearly 48 years later. I echo what Marvel has said about record shops ... we had those all classical stores in Los Angeles and in Orange County (CA) ... nothing but row upon row of classical lp's, pianos and sheet music. I still have all my LPs that I purchased in the 60's & 70's and have a working turntable as part of my audio setup at home.

I have little tolerance for most of today's "noise", especially rap-crap, and those morons who force everyone else around them in traffic to listen to it and feel that horrid thumping, bone jarring, window rattling bass - gives me an instant headache.

Classical music has been around for centuries and will outlast anything else that comes along - it has originality all it own - and so do the people who love and play this music.

 

Hmm, great topic ... classical music discovered me actually as I was too young to really appreciate what I was listening too. I grew up in a 100% classical musical family - parents played for years in the Scandinavian Symphony (Detroit) for eons and later upon moving to California in the Long Beach Phil - they would have to drag us kids to rehearsals, which I can distinctly remember. Dad played the double B flat concert tuba, Mom the violin. My sister acquired the viola and I started out on piano. At home we would play together often.

OMG, you are so lucky. My mother knew a little, my father tried to sing and I had to cover my ears. He cut my piano lessons. Grrrr.

Martin, fâché

In the mornings we woke to Coffee Cup Concert on the FM radio ... Every weekend we either attended an orchestral concert or other classical music event. By the time I was 12, my focus changed to classical church organ, a chosen profession I remain very active in to this day nearly 48 years later. I echo what Marvel has said about record shops ... we had those all classical stores in Los Angeles and in Orange County (CA) ... nothing but row upon row of classical lp's, pianos and sheet music. I still have all my LPs that I purchased in the 60's & 70's and have a working turntable as part of my audio setup at home.

I have little tolerance for most of today's "noise", especially rap-crap, and those morons who force everyone else around them in traffic to listen to it and feel that horrid thumping, bone jarring, window rattling bass - gives me an instant headache.

Classical music has been around for centuries and will outlast anything else that comes along - it has originality all it own - and so do the people who love and play this music.

OMG, you are so lucky. My mother knew a little, my father tried to sing and I had to cover my ears. He cut my piano lessons. Grrrr.

Martin, fâché

 

Until last year, I had been fed lies about classical and how it was for extremely rich snooty old people.

Now, I practically worship geniuses such as Grieg and Beethoven.

It started almost exactly a year ago, when I decided to try writing classical for an independent project in a digital music production class. I kept trying, and despite my best efforts, I couldn't for the life of me understand a word of theory that came from my teacher's mouth. Over last summer, I taught myself everything. Chords, movements, styles, modulations, scales, modes, forms, orchestration, melodic development, everything. The more I studied, the more I realized. One can't know how difficult it is to write such beautiful music if one has never tried, or never thought about how to.

I absolutely love it.

I won't insult other music styles, as I still enjoy rock occasionally, but I must agree that rap is not music. Rap is a lyrical art. It may take skill to do, but it is by no means music.

 

It started almost exactly a year ago, when I decided to try writing classical for an independent project in a digital music production class. I kept trying, and despite my best efforts, I couldn't for the life of me understand a word of theory that came from my teacher's mouth. Over last summer, I taught myself everything. Chords, movements, styles, modulations, scales, modes, forms, orchestration, melodic development, everything. The more I studied, the more I realized. One can't know how difficult it is to write such beautiful music if one has never tried, or never thought about how to.

I absolutely love it.

Wow! Good on you! I was one of the very few people in music school that actually LIKED music theory, once it clicked in my head just right... Go you!

~josh

 

Great topic.

Until this past summer I, in my almost 52 years, did not pay much attention to classical music. There were a few pieces of music that I enjoyed for example an old television show which came on PBS (Public Broadcasting Station) called Masterpiece Theater used what I now know is from Handels Watermusic as the theme. Also I enjoyed the Nutcracker when heard during the Holydays. Other than that I knew nothing.

This past summer my family and I were in Lincolnshire UK for 3 weeks as part of the comemmoration of John Smith and the founding of the Jamestown colony.
I was commisioned to create a piece of music (I build and play Native Flutes) to play in concert with the London Mozart Players. We were planning on doing 3 days of workshops and 3 evening concerts.

With literally 10 minutes of rehersal, barely enough time to say hello, behind us we performed the first concert. It was as if we were in two different musical universes
During the next two days of workshops and concerts we drew closer together musically. The last concert was very nice and when my part of the program was finished I sat and listened to them perform Tchaikovskys Serenade for Strings.

I think the combination of how I was feeling after my part of the program (happy it went well and relieved it was finished) and the beauty of LMP's performance of Serenade caused me to immediately fall in Love with this music!
From that moment on I "needed" to hear more. At first I relived the LMP experience by listening to Serenade days on end.

In my home one can usually hear Kora or Didgerido or Mbira (I play these as well) or Tuvan Throat singing... but once we returned home, much to the dismay of my family, Tchaikovsky was on 24/7. In an effort to keep my family intact some variation in music was needed. Wbach radio to the rescue. This was where new music excited my ears.

Classical is still so new to me. Much to learn about the composers, the language, the music, orchestras, conducters well you get the picture. I feel like the baby who is just begining to babble the rudiments of language...

 

In my case, I really don't know, actually! As you may know, one gets very little exposure to this form of classical music in this part of the world, but whenever I heard a snippet of an orchestral piece (or something based on these principles), I enjoyed it. As a kid, I was exposed to O Fortuna, (a tiny part of) Mozart's 25th symphony, the finale of Beethoven's 9th, etc. through TV adverts. (without knowing it, of course.) Also, one of the famous film composers adopted a lot of stuff from Baroque music, especially Vivaldi and Bach - something I found out after my "discovery." A couple of years ago, I came across this trivia about Mozart reproducing the score of the Miserere from memory. (The date was Jan 26th, 2006, if you must know, and I was 20 years plus a few months old.) I said to myself, "Well, this Mozart guy seems interesting. Why not explore more of his music and see what the fuss is all about?" Till then, I had heard only the names of a couple of composers and nothing more. Having begun my journey in the "Age of the Internet," I discovered internet radio stations. I found one in Feb' '06, and I haven't looked back ever since. I joined internet message boards and started learning more from experienced listeners and enthusiasts. Fortunately, there are stores here that stock a few hundred CDs in their 'Western Classical' racks. This music has definitely been one of the greatest discoveries in my life, and I hope to continue to discover more.

And I'll quit boring you now.

 

I honestly can't remember where my interest in classical music began, but I do remember hearing a lot of it in the cartoons I watched as a kid. Remember all the old Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck cartoons, and the popular masterpieces played sporadically throughout them such as The Blue Danube, Tales from the Vienna Woods, Die Fledermaus, Hungarian Dance No. 5, and William Tell (just to name a few)? Maybe it stemmed from that early exposure.

 

My interest started while I was very young. I started piano lessons in 2nd grade, and I remember going through all the standard piano methods. I changed piano teachers in 4th grade, and my new teacher and I developed a life long friendship. He got me started playing Bach, Mozart, Scarlatti, and even a little Grieg and Schumann really early. His philosophy was that I should learn to play by playing the Masters. Eventually I was able to work on his proclaimed "Old Testament" (The Well-Tempered Clavier) and the "New Testament" (The Beethoven Sonatas)

I went from that start to playing the violin, and played in many ensembles. I distinctly remember the first time I played in a symphonic group and at my first rehearsal after auditioning, we played through the first movement of the Sibelius 3rd Symphony and as the horns enter a few bars in, I was hooked on the symphonic repertoire. I was about 14 then.

Neither my father or mother were particularly interested in classical music, but they were very supportive of my endeavors and showed up at every recital and concert until I went off to college.

 

How long have a been a huge fan of classical music? A little over 3 years.

How did my curiosity and interest in classical music come about? Interestingly, from watching Stanley Kubrick films. I watched them often, since I’m a big fan of his films. I realized how much I enjoyed some of the music used in his films. I started buying the soundtracks to his movies (Barry Lyndon, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut). A Clockwork Orange introduced me to Beethoven’s 9th Symphony, and I found I was really drawn to the powerful Scherzo of the 9th. From there, I purchased a copy of Beethoven’s 9th symphony, and enjoyed it so much, I went to the complete symphonies. That was it! From that point, I became enthralled and passionate about classical music, and went on shopping sprees of CD’s, buying books, etc. I’ve never discovered anything more exciting in my life!

 

This is interesting... While a few here have more-or-less been born into a household familiar with classical music (either through listening and/or through music lessons), many people found out later, unexpectedly.

This only reinforces my belief that IF classical music got more promotion (via record companies, TV, radio, internet, schools, etc.) there would probably be an even wider audience for classical. It isn't because classical music is "too difficult" or "boring" or anything like that at all. People simply have no exposure to it-- it might not even OCCUR to many people to even CONSIDER classical music. At best what people have is stereotypes.

Lack of exposure (and also the stereotypes which "make up" for that lack of exposure) is the only real thing stopping classical from being as popular as it is. Oh, I know-- a lot of people wouldn't like it anyway, but I think this is indicative of the fact that classical music doesn't HAVE to be so obscure-- it isn't on its own merits that classical music is like this today.

Classical music can be fun, exciting, deeply moving, funny, intelligent, and so many other things. I think more people would be willing to delve into its riches if only there were more exposure and less stereotypes.

These are wonderful stories to hear-- keep it up!

Hawk, have you played the shakuhachi as well? I'm an amateur shak player.

~josh

 

This only reinforces my belief that IF classical music got more promotion (via record companies, TV, radio, internet, schools, etc.) there would probably be an even wider audience for classical. It isn't because classical music is "too difficult" or "boring" or anything like that at all. People simply have no exposure to it-- it might not even OCCUR to many people to even CONSIDER classical music. At best what people have is stereotypes.

Lack of exposure (and also the stereotypes which "make up" for that lack of exposure) is the only real thing stopping classical from being as popular as it is. Oh, I know-- a lot of people wouldn't like it anyway, but I think this is indicative of the fact that classical music doesn't HAVE to be so obscure-- it isn't on its own merits that classical music is like this today.

Classical music can be fun, exciting, deeply moving, funny, intelligent, and so many other things. I think more people would be willing to delve into its riches if only there were more exposure and less stereotypes.
~josh

Absolutely, 100% agree. Stereotypes and lack of exposure and promotion are the things that kept me away from classical music until my "maturer" adult years.

 

We need a classical music reality show, folks!

 

Well, my monitoring of other boards has revealed that the UK has a Classical performers' "reality show." Based on what I've read about it, it sounds (Deity)awful. Among other problems, it features young artists, who are gradually "kicked off" one-by-one. Nice. Another example of "just what we don't need"...

 

Well I seem to remember it being in the house from an early age. My family, especially my father having lots of 78's (anybody remember those?) of various pieces especially by Handel, Mozart, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, together with all sorts of other music ranging from Big Band Swing through to Mantovani and other "middle of the road" music. So as a youngster I found I had difficulty in distinguishing from all this different music. I just liked it!
As I grew older I began to be able to differentiate between the various forms. I think my first intro to classical music was the usual formulae of 1812 overture, Beethoven's 5th and Bach's Organ Conatata and Fugue and alike. Later on I started to like a lot of other pieces by different composers.
I had a phase of liking medieval and Renaissance music. I was fascinated by the development of western art music generally, and still am. I wish we could break this stigma of classical music of being only for a strict minority - in this country at least. If you go abroad it seems to be far more generally accepted by the general public...
I think if it wasn't for the onslaught of Pop music in the last half century, we would see and hear much more classical music in general circulation..

 

Oops!! I meant Organ Prelude and Fugue!! sorry for that....

 

Just some rambling thoughts...

Didn't Leonard Bernstein do a TV series back in the 60s on classical music? Certainly he was a populariser, but he brough classical music to people's attention without dumbing it down.

I think the problem is HYPE. Style matters more than substance and people buy into it all too easily-- and many of us have been conditioned to that, so we rarely even consider looking beyond that. Classical music is (largely) not based on style but on substance and that doesn't bode well in a world of the sound bite.

As naive as this may sound, I really do believe were people to be given the opportunity to really be exposed to classical music, more people would enjoy it. But the media can make more money with style-- anyone can be a hack whereas genuine talent is harder to come by (I love rock, jazz and other forms of music too and I believe there is SOME popular music that does and can have substance, but that's a different subject).

I have no problem with the profit motive PER SE, but when quality suffers because of it, listeners have no idea how much they are being shortchanged. I have no problem with companies making a buck, but I DO have a problem with them making a QUICK buck. Thankfully a lot of people seem to stumble on classical music by accident.

For many, classical music is represented by certain stereotypes and that settles it-- I don't need to know anything more about classical music. That's not to say that individuals don't make their own choices, but certainly the availability and exposure to classical music would increase the chances of classical music really being enjoyed by more.

But this is just part of a larger picture-- for the same reason literature and poetry are avoided and the sciences too. I believe if more human beings were EXPOSED to thinking (rather than memorisation) and education was promoted more than merely a means to have a better salary, this would not seem so unusual or rare.

Simone Weil once wrote, "The intelligence can only be led by desire." But that all-too-human human curiosity and desire ends up being thwarted (at an early age), distracted by so many things that are heavy on style but low (if not devoid) on substance.

I have no idea how to go about changing that though. The solution is NOT to resort to hype though (it disappoints me to see this sort of marketing with classical music) but to genuine promotion of the thing itself. Then again, maybe it is too far gone now to change that.

Right now all I can do is a sort of one-on-one sort of thing... If I ever find anyone personally who has a tiny interest in classical, I'll do what I can (without being pushy) to introduce them to more. It turns out my landlady likes classical-- she listens to the local station here but doesn't know a lot about it, so I'm giving her a few CDs to listen to for starters. My girlfriend is sort of in the same situation-- and we're doing a classical music history course together which we're both enjoying.

There's probably a lot more people out there that like classical music but just don't know where to start. They wouldn't begin to know the difference between Haydn and Hindemith-- where would they find out? For people who are already so familiar with classical, it maay not even seem like such a big deal. But for people who have a good grasp of it, its like a kind of fluency that others just don't have.

Where do you begin? Somebody's got to try showing them the ropes at least a little bit, and to encourage them. And with the internet, there are more ways of finding out about these things, if only people knew they were out there. I believe there are a lot more people out there who would love classical music, were they only exposed to the substance of it rather than the stereotype (which is nothing but negative hype).

~josh

 

Excellent Topic

I grew up in a family that appreciated classical music, my Mom who is dancer would do her exercises to piano music and my Dad would listen to everything from opera to really fine jazz.
I became interested in taking classical singing lessons after my idol Rock Singer Linda Ronstadt recorded "Pirates of Penzance". I couldn't believe how her usual belty voice could do all the coloratura gymnastics. I thought if she could study singing seriously it was coll for me to do so.

After I found out about all the beautiful and interesting opera arias and art songs out there,
I quicky lost interest in singing anything else. So anyone who is a purest and hates cross-over music might consider the fact that the cross over artists can get young people interested and then once exposed, like me, will then prefer the real thing.

Krummhorn , you wrote "I have little tolerance for most of today's "noise", especially rap-crap, and those morons who force everyone else around them in traffic to listen to it and feel that horrid thumping, bone jarring, window rattling bass - gives me an instant headache."

I agree and I actually have a friend a tenured professor in the US who got into a lot of trouble when he strongly requested the someone in a car next to him turn down the garbage. The noisemaker called the cops and had HIM arrested in front of his daughter! It was a few years ago before cell phones were popular but the noisy person was rich and had a cell phone with which to make a complaint. Anyway at the time it made national news, while my friend was up for tenure, but he got tenure anyway.

Another friend got sick and tired of being awakened in her flat here in London every morning with booming bass coming from a convertible jag last summer that paused at a light beneath her window. Finally she used her watering can to give the guy a bath, it stopped the problem. I just don't know why people feel the need to inflict their noise on others.

 

While reading these very interesting accounts of our introduction to classical music several thoughts have arisen though as my time is limited at this moment I will only comment on one.
Recently while in the comfort of my automobile I was listening to Mozarts clarinet concerto. I had the volume as loud as it would go which of course was NOT loud enough. This piece is so envigorating/full of energy that it demands to be played and listened to loudly. Because "I" think that classical is so beautiful I want to share it with the world. It would thrill me to hear it coming out of boom boxes (if they still exist) other peoples cars, from an open window of someones home...
I suspect that there are many who have heard classical music and do not like this form of HIGH ART "crap" music that snobs/better than you people, listen to.
I personally have heard very little rap/hip hop music that appeals to my senses...Kanye West the exception. I would much rather listen to Gamelan or Tuvan throat singing or Kora or Fulani Flute or Mbira than some of the bands mentioned in another thread on this forum. This is sans judgement just a statement of my taste in music.
So my question is might the image of people who listen to classical music change if we choose different nonjudgemental ways of describing music particularly music we do not like or have not learned to appreciate "YET". I remember that it was only a few months ago where I would not have given a thought about listening to Mozart or Bach...

 

...might the image of people who listen to classical music change if we choose different nonjudgemental ways of describing music particularly music we do not like or have not learned to appreciate "YET".

Maybe-- there is some truth to that. I generally like to think in terms of "I haven't connected to that music yet" or "I can't connect to it" (on whatever level). There is some music I can appreciate, though I know it simply does not appeal to me. that's not quite the same thing as saying something is "crap" (but even I have my limits of tolerance).

But the problem is "snobbery" exists in different forms and classical doesn't have a monopoly on it (there are some listeners of rock that are shockingly bad in this regard-- the reasoning may be different, but its snobbery all the same).

"Snobbery" in classical music is sort of like the equivalent of determining if something is "hip," "cool" or not. It has nothing to do with the MUSIC per se. A lot of people hear a lot of different kinds of music-- very rarely do people really LISTEN to music (and there is a huge difference)-- even if that music is Bach, Beethoven or whatever. It has nothing to do with music but all to do with that very image.

When music is based on its OWN merits and not with a particular "scene" or "style" or "hype" or "image" I have no problem. But a lot of people DO listen for that purpose. So someone who listens to Beethoven for that reason and someone who listens to Brittany Spears for that reason actually have a lot more in common than they realise. Classical music has often been attacked as being "sappy" or crap too. But music that is more about style than substance I have a problem with, because it has nothing to do with music, but with a scene (I have no problem with projeting a certain image, but when that takes precedence over the music itself, then why bother?).

For myself, since I really wasn't aware of the stereotypes growing up-- I bypassed any such prejudices and just listened to the music-- I don't give a damn about what others think (whether they like classical or rock or whatever or not). A lot of people get too hung up on the image and so they never really listen to the music to begin with IMO. I have no patience for those sorts of extra-musical boundaries.

Like David Byrne said in True Stories: "Do you like music? Oh, I know-- everybody SAYS they do."

~josh

 

Hi Josh,
You asked about shakuhachi earlier in this thread. Yes I have a couple, one i made and one that was built in Japan quite sometime ago. I am most competent making horrific noises and scaring the cats It is a beautiful instrument when in skilled hands.

I think I understand and agree with your sentiments however isn't music and culture inextricably connected regardless of how superficial or short lived this culture (sub-culture/pop culture) maybe? Is it not the scene, the hype( culture) that shapes and defines the merit of music? For example those who play Yidaki (Yolngu people of Arnhemland Austr) may say someone is quite skilled at playing didgeridoo but because they are not Yolngu they will not learn to play Yidaki because it is through centuries of living with a piece of land and being connected both to the Ancestors and the Relations of today the one learns the music of Yidaki. This is that culture/music link.

You commented that music which is more about style than substance causes a problem. Would you elaborate a little.
Knowing very little about classical music culture I have thought that there was/is a particular style associated with it. It is often refered to as high art...for the gentile. Of course this could be my own stereotype. If it is then I can stop putting on my tux when listening to it
I couldn't agree more about listening to music rather than hearing it. I've heard some pieces that did nothing for me when I listened passively but when listened to actively really were amazing.
Some years ago I worked with adolescents in treatment. There was often music on. One day one of the kids asked what I was listening to. I do not remember now who it was but the lyrics were about respect and not being judged...
I suggested that the kids and I exchange music. How surprised we were when some of the heavy metal I was given to listen to had a similar lyrical content to what I gave them to listen to. Obviously the delivery was much different. I never learned to like heavy metal nor did the kids like my music but our judgement laden criticisms were diminished once we had a little insight to the culture that the music was a part of.

I appreciate your thoughts Josh. I hope my questions/comments are not offensive. Thanks

 

Great topic!!!!!!

I was a poor/working-class kid growing up in 1960's Phoenix, AZ., going to crappy public schools that DID NOT teach, or expose kids to classical music. My parents were no help either, my mom loved Elvis, and my step-father loved country music. :angry:

Then, in high school, a teacher came along, like the Robbin Williams role in the movie, "Dead Poets Society", and exposed me to classical music.

The thing I remember most about this teacher, was that he loved Bach, and he loved to play it LOUD, and he smoked a pipe. He used to bring in these huge speakers (cir. 1970) and hook up the record player, put on a 33 rpm of Bach, and crank up Bach as loud as he could. He used to say, "Bach and Classical Music are ment to be played LOUD. Don't be afraid to play this music loud, I love it loud!"

Of course, being a bunch of 16 year olds, we just loved this guy, and his love of LOUD music.

That was the age of 16, the first time I was exposed to classical music.

 

Josh, you are really on to something here. I agree with a lot of what you said.

I believe that the "free-market" and it's pimp "the media" have done more to destroy classical music in this country then anything else.

Did you know that a few years ago, the late author/social critic Kurt Voneget was on the show, "Nightline", when Ted Kopple asked him what could be done to reverse America's downward decent into the gutter of ignorance, and Kurt said, "Turn off the TV, read a book, and go to a symphony." Kopple laughed at him, and said, "Yeah, right. I'm sure millions of Americans are going to take your advice."

Ted Kopple acted as if going to a symphony or reading a book was a stupid idea, that most people were going to ignore.

In our "free-market", convicted felon, drug-dealer, gang-member, "50 Cent" out-sells Mozart or Bach by millions and millions of copies.

How do the great composers "compete" in a "free-market" with these thugs?

The answer, is that they can't, and that's the way the market works.

 

Hawk, I'm pretty limited on the shak myself, but what little I can play on it I enjoy-- its always a very quietening experience for me. I used to own four models, but now I have only one, my favourite one made by Monty Levinson at www.shakuhachi.com -- just a student model, but it cost me $350.00 One of these days I'd love to get hold of a three footer (I love the deep tones on it)

Certainly, there are traditions in any music and that creates a special living link with what has gone before. I guess what I'm getting at when I say "style" I don't mean "playing style" but style in terms of "stylishness" where extra-musical elements seem to be more important than the actual music itself. I probably wasn't too clear on that.

Look at the boy band fad, for example. Does it really matter that digital effects are used in the studio to correct off key singing (I don't mean merely an occasional correction either) or that many of the performances are lip synched? Here is an instance where style (or "stylishness") trumps talent.

I have no problem with any musician in any genre having an "image" they project to audiences, but when the music really hinges on THAT rather than genuine creativity and something actually original, then I do question what MUSICAL value it may really have. I mean, boy bands come a dime a dozen and they really rely on the same formula without adding anything new to the genre. There's nothing *authentic* about it-- it is a hype machine designed to rake in money.

I know that sounds really cynical, but I have a good friend in Nashville who is trying to break into the country music scene as a songwriter there-- and I was shocked at just how much of a business it really is, some things being dubious and in some cases downright unethical (I'm talking about the songwriters as well as the record companies). I have no problem with a muso making money, but when everything is scrutinised in terms of "will it make us money?" then something vital has been lost.

I think all the fancy talk about classical music being "high art" is misleading and it annoys the hell out of me because it tries to say "we" (classical music listeners) are a special elite to be differentiated from the rabble who just listen to crap (i.e. everything that is not classical). People are deluding themselves if they think such rubbish. (If I sound annoyed, it isn't at you, Hawk -- its directed at what few people I've met in life that have this sort of attitude).

Music, ALL music, belongs to ALL of us. Music that comes from inside the human individual is what ultimately matters. How that will manifest itself will depend on a lot of things and can come out in classical, jazz, rock, folk, metal, country, soul, sitar music, Bulgarian singing, and even in rap (even though I've rarely experienced that myself LOL)

Yeah, I'd get rid of the tux (literally-- I've often attended classical concerts in jeans & a t-shirt LOL). Listening to classical music with a receptive ear is certainly is an ennobling experience, but so is jazz and rock and a lot of other things. They're just expressions of what it is to be human. Culturally we may be drawn to some manners of expression than others. As long as it is a genuine expression and not just to make a quick buck or out of the inability to come up with anything original, then that's all that really matters I think.

I think that may have been what you experienced with those kids exchanging music, Hawk, just the manner in expressing that experience of humanity was in a different idiom.

WHY we are drawn to some idioms and not others, I'm not sure. Obviously exposure has a lot to do with it, cultural background and so on. But even those boundaries can be transcended and then you find out "Wow, why didn't I listen to THIS kind of music before?"

I dunno if that really answered your good questions, Hawk. I may be just rambling again! LOL

~josh

 

Camp of the Saints, yeah, there's nothing wrong with musos making money (even THEY gotta pay the rent and all!) but when it comes down to reverse-marketing in the music industry (and yes, it is an INDUSTRY) then were not talking about selling music anymore-- it may as well be selling shoes, wooden planks or mayonnaise.

The thing is people are being sold short on discoveries to be made all because stereotypes are always being reinforced. I still get smart *** comments at work when I occasionally listen to classical music at work. Its plainly a prejudice and the media helps reinforce that prejudice.

Competition can be stiff in classical music because no fad is going to carry them thru (OK, except maybe Philip Glass LOL). Oh there is some politics involved, as in all ventures, but talent is the main thing-- you can't be a hack and be successful in classical music.

I can say, being in the rock business for almost twenty years now, that popular music doesn't necessarily operate on the same principles. Talent MAY be a factor in the "success" of an act, but it is not the driving one. You can be the best damn muso in the universe, but without the political clout, you're nothing.

That means that there is a high percentage of acts that hardly deserve the media exposure they receive, but they get it anyway because people have been culturally conditioned to buy into that "stylishness" or fad rather than to listen to the actual music itself. Its a distraction, and a lot of talentless people NEED that distraction, otherwise they couldn't possibly have an audience.

The media has more to gain promoting such acts because they come a dime a dozen, whereas classical (or jazz-- I mean REAL jazz) requires a lot more hard work and determination-- which is rare. And people are being sold short because of it.

By the way, what a COOL teacher! Wow!

~josh

 

I was steeped in classical music from the cradle on. My dad was a church organist and my mom sold opera records back in the 40s. Since my dad never made much money, I was never exposed to the "snooty" side of the classical music community. My parents loved music for its own sake.

Unfortunately, and to my parents' horror, I did not come to love classical music until about age 14. I was a child of American pop culture, preferring Dick Clark's American Bandstand. But in 8th grade, I subscribed to the Columbia Record Club. And on a whim, I ordered 12 classical albums as my introductory package. I still to this day don't understand why. But what a world it opened up for me.

Among the albums was "Columbia Records presents Vladimir Horowitz", Brahms 2nd Symphony (Bernstein), and Beethoven's 4th Piano Concerto (Gould and Bernstein), etc., etc. After a few months of listening to the same 12 albums, I was hooked. I'm 57 now, and still as hooked as ever.

And I'm thrilled to find a community of like-minded classical music lovers. I must warn you, however: I still need an occasional jolt of Jimi Hendrix, Cream, or Led Zeppelin, just for old times sake!

 

Hi ?! Welcome to TC.

 

QuestionMark, where are the Mysterians?

~josh

 

Hi, Josh. I honestly did not understand your reference to the Mysterians, so I had to do a search. Found QuestionMark and the Mysterians, a 60s rock band from Flint, Michigan. I'm impressed! As as a child of the 60s I should know these things. But I only chose QM because my real name is Mark, and I find, with age, how much I don't know -- still questioning. Thanks for the rock lesson! Hope the moderators don't feel the thread has now been tainted.