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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

"American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need." The solution? Let business "shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees."

In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
Ehh most Universities in the US, still require a common set of classes in General Education. So people take humanities classes, science classes, to fill up their general ed requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

"American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need." The solution? Let business "shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees."

In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
This is ironic. Why ? Because the Liberal Arts Degree can eventually outearn STEM majors in the long run. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
A bunch of classical music is meant as just that : entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
Telemann's table music, Mozart's divertimenti, Strauss waltzes, opera/operetta...the list goes on.
Also religious music composed as an earnest expression of religious sentiment instead of as "art".
That being said.... I will not mention his name, but there is a certain composer who gets alot of flak on this forum...... I am reminded of him, because his music is considered to be pop fluff here by many; but then without him; I would not have gotten into Classical Music.

And his music is played everywhere........
 

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Discussion Starter · #99 ·
When I was in High School, there was Dance, Choir, Band, Piano Classes, Drama, and Musical Theatre. The requirement was one year or one semester of a VAPA ( A Visual or performing arts class ). I went with Dance and Piano. The requirements were more if one wanted to go to a University of California, or a Private University.

In my Middle School, there was band but that was not a requirement. So not everyone took it. And in Elementary School, the only artistic stuff I had was art classes, and that was once every month.
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
One way to gently introduce CM is to ask somebody if he minds the music from Star Wars.

Then play "Mars" from The Planets.

Then play Ride of the Valkyries.

Another way is to mention that many pop/rock musicians like CM. There are YT videos with samples of songs and what they borrowed from decades or centuries before.
Frank Sinatra loved Classical Music so much that he basically forced his producers to mimic the orchesteral sound for many of his albums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 · (Edited)
Appreciating classical music seems to be closesly connected with respecting culture in general, which can be effectively taught. I cannot comment on the education system in the US or elsewhere, but at least here we are taught music theory and classical music and jazz history since middle school for many years. The best schools in the country are actually old and historic public schools, making any kind of social class distinction rather unimportant. I think social class isn't even a massive game-changer in our contemporary world where most people in the Western countries at least have access to Youtube and streaming services. Of course, being from a well-to-do family might increase your chances, but it's by no means a requirement and most definitely not a guarantee. You don't have to be part of the upper-middle class or social elite to be exposed to classical music. Classical music fans and musicians should also get rid of the uppity stereotype that classical music carries - the very stereotype that classical music is "elitist."

I think that people should simply be exposed to classical music as early as possible, and classical music has to make itself accessible to general public, not only an erudite musical elite who enjoys atonality and contemporary avant-gardism. I got more deeply interested in classical music after watching the VPO New Year concert on TV. People should simply be exposed to that kind of easily accessible classical music more frequently than once a year.
In the US, at least where I live, anything relating to the fine arts isn't really a requirement until you're like age 14 in high school. And even then the only thing you need is a year of any fine art, be it be classical music, piano, band, choir, dance.

I took dance and piano.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
While ironically serving as a harbinger of doom for the jazz orchestra/ big band culture that prized instrumentalists over singers...
So maybe the problem isn't that we don't appreciate classical music enough.

The problem is therefore that Classical Music is not definite anymore in the average Joe's mind, but it's now.... dispersed in pop culture.

If you want an example of it, just take a look at George Gershwin. He merged so many distinct traditions together, and then his music became pop culture if that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
There's one like this about an hour away from where I'm at. I have to say that your rosy views are, unfortunately, unrealistic.

The supply of willing, competent teachers is limited enough in mainstream academic fields (and it's not just because of low salaries), let alone in something like classical music. Without the most qualified of teachers, any attempt at a public classical music education program will do no more than what is already available.

Some status-conscious students may begin to identify more (superficially, at least) with classical music, but that's about it. If they don't have a conducive disposition for real appreciation of art music, then the benefits that such programs can bring them are meaningless. There is no value in educating people in classical music if their appreciation of it will be nothing more than superficial and cultish.

Funding public schools isn't the solution here (as far as promoting classical music is concerned). There are simply too many public schools, too few qualified musicians willing to teach in such a setting, and too few students per public school with the talent or predisposition to justify such use of government money. (Funding public conservatories is a different story, one that I would full-heartedly support, but that doesn't seem to be what you were suggesting).

Any increase in public school spending should be invested in dismantling outdated, counterproductive systems and in increasing funding for productive subjects like the sciences (which, contrary to the reactionary claims of many humanities teachers, are in fact sorely underfunded). Classical music is necessarily the last of one's priorities.
Why are we makeing a divide between the sciences and the arts ? They're both needed in this world. https://xiaoyunyang.medium.com/how-playing-the-piano-taught-me-math-8917f84a4326

Many studies have shown that Arts Education boosts academic achievement, cuts the drop out rates in high school, and helps in the sciences as well.

In a good public school, you need the arts and sciences. You need both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 · (Edited)
I'm not saying schools should get rid of arts options. But changing the balance of funding- especially where money is tight- is fully within reason. It's not like arts classes are magically going to disappear, or that students will stop taking them, just because they get a 20% budget cut.
Where Money is tight, they're not going to go for Arts programs though...

they're going to go for lower income schools; and close the schools off completely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #122 ·
Not that I disagree with the consensus here. I'm not trying to prove anything but to inject a cheering note into the discussion.

From my recent experience with a community choir, at a guess, only 2 out of the 30 odd could read music. Their initial reaction to Mozart's Ave Verum was, errr, negative. It took a while but now when asked what want to sing to give themselves a treat at the end of a rehearsal, it's likely to be "Ave Verum!"

For what it's worth, when I used to sing (second soprano) in a small madrigal group, the tenors and basses were all engineers or scientists (and formidable musicians). Some well-known scientists are, of course, passionate about classical music (some aren't). Come to think of it, the most accomplished soprano in our group was a mathematician and I'm not sure that an alto or two mightn't have had a scientific background.
As I have said before, Classical Music and the Sciences are like two peas in a pod.

There's alot of math involved in Music.
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
Define "the average Joe". All kinds of people listen to all kinds of music. My elementary school had a general music class for kids to learn about music and the teacher played classical pieces for us. And members of the local symphony visited the school with their instruments to inspire the students. I was very excited when the percussionists from the Syracuse Symphony came to my school so I signed up for drum lessons. This was 50 years ago so I have no idea what goes on in schools today?
Many Elementary Schools don't have mandatory music classes for kids anymore. And maybe starting in middle school or high schools, kids will take band, choir, drama, dance, as an elective.
 
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