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To be blunt, I think my statement that universities are now far more about extremely expensive job training is more supportable than "kids are learning Michael Jackson instead of Bach at music academies".
 

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Classical music is becoming a growing streaming market according to this Forbes article; reaching a share of 32%.

=> https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissamdaniels/2019/07/22/how-classical-music-is-becoming-the-next-emerging-streaming-market/?sh=797a479c2894

statistic =>
View attachment 155439

This 2019 abc.net article is even more optimistic => "The study found that 35% of adults listened to classical music. Classical music was the fourth most popular music genre, with more fans than R&B or hip hop."
=> https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-and-watch/news/young-large-audience-for-classical-music/11418000
Streaming numbers can be misleading since listening to ten seconds of a track would count. Which is why data on purchasing patterns are a more reliable indicator of actual support. Also sites like Spotify have curated albums such as "Classical Music for Studying ... Reading ... When It's Raining", etc. that infuriate me when I'm searching for a composer's music but must be designed for the "Average Joe."
 

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To be blunt, I think my statement that universities are now far more about extremely expensive job training is more supportable than "kids are learning Michael Jackson instead of Bach at music academies".
To be blunt, that means you haven't looked at university course offerings in music.
 

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In the UK the BBC used to promote classical music quite actively e.g. Young Musician of the Year used to be on BBC1 (when there were only 3 channels to chose from). The ratings must have been 5 Million at least, maybe much more. Now it is on BBC4 where there is no risk of Joe Public bumping into it.
 

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To be blunt, that means you haven't looked at university course offerings in music.
And you haven't looked at the job market, or what college advisors are telling students. The focus is on job training. Any time public universities come in for funding cuts, the emphasis is on "workforce", as if the purpose of higher learning is to improve our workforce, and not educate.
 

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Streaming numbers can be misleading since listening to ten seconds of a track would count. Which is why data on purchasing patterns are a more reliable indicator of actual support. Also sites like Spotify have curated albums such as "Classical Music for Studying ... Reading ... When It's Raining", etc. that infuriate me when I'm searching for a composer's music but must be designed for the "Average Joe."
The abc.net article also states that : "Those surveyed were almost evenly split on whether they listened intently to classical music or played it in the background. Respondents in South Korea were most likely to be "purist" listeners, sitting down and listening closely.".

So, without the "classical background listeners" there still remain 17% attentive classical listeners.

And to be fair, an awful lot of people are "background pop listeners" too. It's not a classical music only phenomenon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

"American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need." The solution? Let business "shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees."

In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
Ehh most Universities in the US, still require a common set of classes in General Education. So people take humanities classes, science classes, to fill up their general ed requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
This- from one of the most influential conservative lobbying groups in the US, is pretty reflective on the general view of universities now.

"American businesses are increasingly worried about the quality of the workforce pool from which they will be hiring.… Too few American students are graduating high school or college with the skills employers need." The solution? Let business "shape or endorse curriculum, training and certification options that teach the skills they look for in potential employees."

In other words - job training, and better yet- job training that the employee has to pay exorbitant sums for. The idea that humanities and arts studies have been transformed from studying Rembrandt into studying nothing but Katy Perry has been a convenient pretext to eliminate them, but the reason is all about money.

If kids aren't learning the classics, their enemies aren't Radiohead, or rap music. The enemies are Amazon, Google, and Facebook.
This is ironic. Why ? Because the Liberal Arts Degree can eventually outearn STEM majors in the long run. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html
 

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If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
 

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If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
Spot on.

(Gotta get my 15 characters with this)
 

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If one wishes to promote classical music, it might be a good idea to begin by acknowledging that listening to music as art is different than listening to it as entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
A bunch of classical music is meant as just that : entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
Telemann's table music, Mozart's divertimenti, Strauss waltzes, opera/operetta...the list goes on.
Also religious music composed as an earnest expression of religious sentiment instead of as "art".
 

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An enormous amount of classical music was composed with the expectation that listeners would only hear the work a few times in their lives, and possibly only once, which does make the idea that classical music must be studied and immersed in with repeated listening very unusual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
A bunch of classical music is meant as just that : entertainment, ear candy, or distraction.
Telemann's table music, Mozart's divertimenti, Strauss waltzes, opera/operetta...the list goes on.
Also religious music composed as an earnest expression of religious sentiment instead of as "art".
That being said.... I will not mention his name, but there is a certain composer who gets alot of flak on this forum...... I am reminded of him, because his music is considered to be pop fluff here by many; but then without him; I would not have gotten into Classical Music.

And his music is played everywhere........
 

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That being said.... I will not mention his name, but there is a certain composer who gets alot of flak on this forum...... I am reminded of him, because his music is considered to be pop fluff here by many; but then without him; I would not have gotten into Classical Music.

And his music is played everywhere........
From a fresh announcement by the Royal Concertgebouw (free translation):
Gone are the days when film music was dismissed as second-class art. Various film scores have now earned a deserved place in the orchestra repertoire.
Programme (concert on January 27th 2022)

Jennifer Higdon
BLUE CATHEDRAL
Peter Lieberson
NERUDA SONGS
Alfred Newman
20TH CENTURY FOX FANFARE
Erich Korngold
THE SEA HAWK
Bernard Herrmann
VERTIGO: PRELUDE / THE NIGHTMARE, SCENE D'AMOUR
John Williams
ET: ADVENTURES ON EARTH
John Williams
STAR WARS: PRINCESS LEIA'S THEME
John Williams
STAR WARS: MAIN TITLE

The hall will be packed and the audience rejuvenated by 10 years.

But I digress. Let's continue about mandatory university programmes, short attention spans, the alleged "necessity" of analytical listening, or what have you.
 

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We live in a Brave New World where the average Joe has been dumbed down. The problem is societal. If you want the average Joe to enjoy things like classical music average Joe needs an education. He is not getting it in public schools or learning from the slime oozing off his TV set. The average Joe is doped up, numbed and dumbed.

I find it hilarious how the so called 'elites' do the most disgusting, vile and cowardly acts to maintain their power and to keep others down. They then point at the ignorant masses and call them 'vulgar'.
 

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I've seen statements like this a lot - but are there actual data available? Does a larger percentage of the population of these countries listen to classical music and/or go to concerts compared to say Europe and the USA?
Let me tell you...I've had the pleasure of playing two month-long tours in China. Not only the famous places like Shanghai and Beijing, but in many lesser known, but huge, cities all over the country. The Chinese have built fabulous concert halls that are unbelievable. Some are so large they can have fighter jets on stage - and they do! In every place we played the audiences were large, appreciative and quite interested in what we were playing. The concert hall in Beijing has a record store in the lobby that puts the similar stores in Vienna and New York to shame.

On the last tour, I sought out a violin maker who gave me a tour of his factory. Massive - and it was only one of many. He told me something to really think about: in China, they have more students learning violin than America has students. The Chinese are also making every other instrument - albeit not always with the highest quality. Lark bassoons are godawful.

In Japan it's similar - classical concerts are broadcast and enthusiastically attended. Many record companies release things in Japan long before they show up here - there's a market for them there.
 

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I don't need anymore explaining. Classical Music as it stands right now is not popular with the average middle class Joe.
The atonal/serial nonsense should just be stopped. Classical orchestras are often used for films and video games. So its sellable to average Joes. I have also heard from average Joes that they like Beethovens 5th full symphony. But they don't like to go to the concert house and sit there. The internet increases the accessibility today what helps. But we need more new music because everything has a half-life. Therefore it is necessary for classical composers to understand that many musical developments of the 20th century were bad and wrong.
 

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I removed a number of posts which were political. Politics are not allowed in Talk Classical, except in the dedicated sub-forum, and then only if they are clearly related to classical music.
 

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I agree with the above posts that classical music was NEVER popular with average middle class Joes.

Of course I am not a musicologist and the above is just an opinion.
 
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