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Expose them to it at a young age, regularly, and make it an enjoyable experience they will want to relive. When the subject of music comes up - I offer CM. Takers get playlists of excerpts from light works - about 3' in length.
Children will act and learn in accordance with their long history.
Separate kids into two TRIBES and let them compete in their prepubescent conventions of 'etiquette', the older with the younger, a year or two apart.
This is akin to what created our Mozart. Once they get the feel of the pieces under their fingers and the cleverness of the logic, some kids will take it and run with it, especially with the vagaries of peer pressure. It's all really luck (timing and attitudes they care about) I guess.
 
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As soon as this dude typed "Civil rights, personal freedom and..." Art Rock's ears perked up and he'll be here to provide a gentle reminder that politics in any way, shape, or form are to be avoided in their entirety within this thread.

So... everyone might want to cool it lest Art's reminder be less than gentle.
"Don't do that again!"
"What'd I do?"
"You know what you did!!"
 

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Children will act and learn in accordance with their long history.
Separate kids into two TRIBES and let them compete in their prepubescent conventions of 'etiquette', the older with the younger, a year or two apart.
This is akin to what created our Mozart. Once they get the feel of the pieces under their fingers and the cleverness of the logic, some kids will take it and run with it, especially with the vagaries of peer pressure. It's all really luck (timing and attitudes they care about) I guess.
I've been doing this from the 70s and I wanted to add one very important point. Generally, girls, at this age 10 or 12, are just naturally better at conceptualizing and then playing clever, instructional pieces than the boys are. And this curiously sparks something in the boys that they just can't get from any other planned situation!
 
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I'm new in this forum. I'll introduce myself but I would to write my opinion. For me the people don't listen classical music because they think that it isn't enough listen and appreciate but they have to study the piece. They think that they can't analyze the piece minute for minute they didn't listen it! But we aren't in a school, there is any examination.
It is necessary a less rigid approach, more lightness, just listen.
Just listen, don't think, just "be" in the Other world of music and be content with stopping there. Yes, that's many peoples' opinion in just about every technical subject which people find difficult.

It's a pleasant approach and many musicians savor it of course, but really that's a whole higher level which comes after the learning.

You just joined an hour ago. wow! welcome welcome!
 
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Thank for the welcome. No I don't think it is "listen don't think". You can think, it's good, but you haven't to study the piece, it isn't a problem if you don't remember it perfectly. I believe that from listen without think to analyze perfectly minutes for minutes there is a big space.
Yes, there is a large space which you grow through, depending upon your opportunites. Where you stop is a personal choice, but people should be aware that there's so much more to music. I've spent a long life with it and I am still often mystified by what's possible, all starting with simple fundamentals which have natural effects on everyone.
 

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I'm not sure if your comment suggests that young people tend to listen to 20th century modernism (or later) classical music (i.e. the last 2 paragraphs are correlated). When you say classical music often is appealing to young people, could you explain whether you mean some young people listen to classical music or that a significant percentage of young people do. If the later, do you have any data or reasons to believe that's true. I would love to think it's true, but my admittedly small sample suggests otherwise.

Certainly some people could have ideological reasons for thinking 20th century modernism has caused a decrease in classical music listenership, but I tend to doubt that most do. When I first came to TC, I was stunned by how different and unpleasant the 20th century and contemporary music appeared to me. It was natural to believe that the music was a clear impediment to listening. I no longer view modern and contemporary music that way, but I can understand that view without reference to ideological motives.
There's something in the sounds of classical music, no, I think if it's a lasting interest it would include all of the other aspects of music too. The techniques in the long sweep of development, from the simpler sounds of the 4th and 5th, all the way to Shostakovich at least.
 

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Well said. My preferences are based on how much I enjoy the sound based on a number of factors (form, texture, tonality, patterns, instrumentation, etc., etc.). This for the most part excludes modern music because I dislike the sound of it. My exposure was initially to romantic period works (what I grew up with) - but acquired a preference for classical form even though I still very much appreciate romantic era works.

Shorter pieces (or excerpts of larger ones) of classical and romantic works (and instrumental vs keyboard) may encourage new potential listeners to listen to CM and develop an appreciation for it. A few examples were kindly posted by pianozach. For many CM devotees - this was our introduction.



I would add that ideology is not correlated for a number of listeners (and I include myself in that), particularly new ones.
In my experience Carnaval and Peter and the Wolf are distracting to young people because of their extra-musical allusions. I found it's better to give them Mozart piano sonatas or Chopin nocturnes etc.. And then if the melodies do nothing for them they're not ready to explore beyond familiar songs, for understanding and 'analyzing'. Because I think the goal is, as soon as possible, get them interested in the notes, instead of mind pictures.
 
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As a teacher, I've been doing this for years, introducing classical music heavily into my music lessons. However, there's little interest in classical pieces amongst children these days. The kids don't dislike it (far from it) but they seem to like the throwaway nature of autotuned pop pap more readily. It may be formulaic crud but it's what they seem to get hooked on and desire more readily. Obviously some will branch out and make their way to CM eventually but it's getting harder and harder to convince kids that CM is valid and not music for dinosaurs, these days.
I think there's understandable reasons for this. Perhaps every generation goes through this. What I mean is, the 40s pop standards gave way to early rock of the 50s, then later rock and the more artistic pop of the late 60s, then disco, then Grunge, then the pop pap which is quite difficult to figure out as to its youthful meanings.

So what's the trend that I see? In each transition, the younger generation doesn't want their music to sound old fashioned, old hat, corny. The kiss of death within peer groups or even imagined peer groups (aspirations). Also they seem to want music that is less and less obvious to follow and memorize and get tired of. 'Makes sense.

Who really knows (with so many years of variables and change and unsuspected innovations (tech)), but we can generalize.
 
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The Gay 90s was replaced by Tin Pan Alley, jazz is co-opted in the roaring 20s and then the pop standards of the 30s and 40s. To me it looks like the same sequence and phenomenon, but it might just be that I'm looking for it?
 

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This is true - to an extent.

My mom had (and played) albums that were decidedly "old fart" music, yet I'm still very fond of SOME of it, and still turn my nose up at some of it. Mom, not being a musician (nor was my dad), still had a rather diverse and eclectic collection of LPs.

There were Broadway cast albums (Gypsy, Oliver, etc.), soundtracks (I loved Around the World in 80 Days, but despised Picnic), 101 Strings (yuck!), Herb Alpert :love:, Frank Sinatra (yuck), Julie Christie, 1812 Overture.

My mom used to tell the story of a 5 year old me sitting in the sandbox belting out Ethel Merman.

The point is that these were normalized things in my childhood, the music from all different genres. It wasn't force on me, but simply part of a "normal" household. Some I loved, some I didn't.
What's not true?
How does it get forced on anyone? It's always on in the background?
Broadway is a separate category, I think, because there's so much song writing talent, with their ears searching for what's new and trendy.
I'm talking about teens of each generation being somehow predictably different from each prior generation.

I remember Sinatra singing so accurately. It sounded so accurate and yet so natural. I never went back to see whether he sang the strict note durations from the song sheets, but it might have been just a style that sounded so disciplined (his attitude was larger than life, as they say).
I like the theme from Picnic. A clever use of harmony.
Julie Christie singing 'Round Midnight. wow! Such control and emotion!
Mantovani was my father-in-law's favorite, for unwinding after work.
 

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As with many things, it depends on why you listen and what you hope to get out of music.

Someone into clubbing doesn't want to listen to old music because music to them is part of an aesthetic that they want to keep up with the times, and to be fashionable.

Some art school kids, meanwhile, might not be interested because they want what's at the furthest cutting edge of the avant-garde, the stuff nobody is listening to.

Most people obviously fall between these categories, but you can't simply break it down into "kids aren't into old music because they're young".




By the way, I think pops classical in the 50s/60s, if anything, wasn't replaced by rock- it was the kind of stuff middle-aged, middle-class people listened to and was replaced by pop and adult-contemporary.
What I remember is, older folks buying their first good-sounding system and phonographs, and then buying a few albums to try out the sound. Some recent songs they knew before, fully orchestrated for the sound experience. And of course the sound effect records and the comedy routine albums.
 

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As a firm believer in early imprinting in the arts, I would recommend a hodge-podge of different approaches to introducing CM and the young to each other. Not in any order: exposing them to film/video soundtracks and suggesting that CM is or can be a place or way to further explore the sort of soundtrack music they really like. I loved as a kid the Richard Rodgers music for Victory at Sea--very stirring, and I wanted to hear more of such.

Pointing out that music they may hear in ads or as intro music for TV shows, etc., with examples, may be taken from CM--an example is the intro to Judge Judy episodes where we hear the opening 4 notes of Beethoven's 5th.

Playing for kids in the classroom bits of tone poems or ballet scores and asking them whether they hear in the music a thunderstorm (Beethoven, Grofe) and who did the more convincing job. Nightride and Sunrise suggests itself; also Villa-Lobos BB #2, more Grofe (On the Trail); which Rachmaninoff preludes and Etudes Tableaux sound the most like bells ringing. Hard to go wrong with The Nutcracker or Peter and the Wolf. Respighi offers many examples. It will take with those predisposed for whatever reasons to begin to like CM.
Imagine how boring (irrelevant) or off-putting that would be to a typical 10 or 12 year old boy. We're the adults, we need to trick them! We know a little about what makes them tick. We might remember our own reactions at that tender age. Liking the simple yet poignant song Nowhere Man, Lennon, much more than any LvB symphony. (But what did we know..)
 

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I think the best you can do is expose young kids to classical pieces that are short and easy to listen to (for example beautiful or catchy melodies). If 95% of adults don’t have the patience for cm an eight year old definitely won’t have it either for a symphony
Or tell the kids they're just not old enough. That motivates.
 

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If we didn't have an educational background in math or physics as a youngster, would we be interested in higher math or physics when we became adults? I don't know. This has probably been studied in depth.. for math and science.

In this regard, I think CM is 'higher' music.

I guess my piano students could be called 'outliers'. Those labels are very important to kids, for what about 5 years? But to them it seems like a long time.
 

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I see. The conservative approach - keeping things as they are - is a pragmatic one, at least when applied to the USA. Hurwitz has talked about how the financial bubble started to burst in the '90's. With recessions in 2008 and now with Covid, its obvious that the way forward will continue to involve difficulty because of constant change (especially economic and technological). Radical change isn't advisable in these circumstances, but at the other extreme is the danger of complacency. Longer term, there has to be nourishment and renewal for continued growth.
I might be wrong, but I don't think young people will be interested in CM without a few years of the experience of making music.
We're investing less and less time and money in this foundation for them. Educators, parents and the kids themselves don't think it's an unfortunate situation. Someday we'll all have very capable virtual reality.
 
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