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Discussion Starter · #101 · (Edited)
Here is a great example of what I'm talking about, in all its splendor.

PragerU was founded in 2009 by conservative radio talk show host Dennis Prager and radio producer and screenwriter Allen Estrin, in order to advocate for conservative views and to offset what Prager regards as the undermining of college education by the left. Much of the early funding for PragerU came from hydraulic fracturing (fracking) billionaires Dan and Farris Wilks.

PragerU releases one video per week on various topics from a conservative viewpoint that according to its site "advances Judeo-Christian values".

The videos support and argue for capitalism, against a $15 minimum wage, and that gun ownership is a constitutional right. The videos promote fossil fuels and dispute the scientific consensus on climate change.

So bear this in mind when you see this video being posted in anti-modernist rants:

BTW, this is supposed to be a discussion, not the Spanish Inquisition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
...the last paragraph in bold.
Regarding that, the status quo can be considered as being 'political' although it is unstated. This is how any dominant faction keeps its power.
 

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Say that musical consonance represents the politically sociable party , and hammering on the m2's and aug4's is the work of obsessive radical ornery malcontents . I wonder how to tell the latter from the non-political ? I think one sort would rather prefer the augmented octaves or perhaps the randomly encountered un-tuned piano and for whom sometimes noisy is just joyful like a tree full of crows .
 

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Here is a great example of what I'm talking about, in all its splendor.


BTW, this is supposed to be a discussion, not the Spanish Inquisition.
I don't know how to break this to you - or explain it to you without wearing myself out - but despite Prager U's conservative political credentials, this talk by Robert Florczak is about aesthetics, not politics, and its views may be held by people of any political persuasion. Note particularly that, at its conclusion, the question of how we can express our own views and influence the course of art is answered by suggesting, not political policies, but rather personal actions of a sort that ought to be respected by anyone regardless of politics.

Me, I have no reason to inquire about the political ideas of people who think that a hundred-ton rock becomes a work of art when moved from a quarry to a museum courtyard - or that the sound of an airplane going over becomes music when a pianist sits at a piano doing nothing for four minutes and thirty-three seconds. Frankly I don't see why you should either - but then I never could understand the motivation behind inventing reasons to be critical of people who don't share my tastes.
 

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Regarding that, the status quo can be considered as being 'political' although it is unstated. This is how any dominant faction keeps its power.
The paragraph to which you refer has nothing to do with the status quo or power. You're making stuff up again - which is what one does (well, it's what some do) when one's arguments consist of unfounded assumptions, fallacies, and undefined terms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 · (Edited)
I've discovered, that many members here have 'politicized' modern music. It has never been my intention to consciously "politicize" modern music, but apparently those who already have will say otherwise. It seems that a political undercurrent has been uncovered. Some members probably knew this all along. The dialogue of "traditional forms of art and music vs. modern art" is political by nature, since modernism is perceived by some as being liberal, leftist, Marxist, non-traditional, and even destructive of tradition. This an attitude of those traditionalists who feel their tradition is being threatened. "Modernism" equate to "liberalism" in the minds of those who have 'politicized' modern music. We will never be able to discuss modern music without it having political resonances, intended or not.
 

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I've discovered, that many members here have 'politicized' modern music. It has never been my intention to consciously "politicize" modern music, but apparently those who already have will say otherwise. It seems that a political undercurrent has been uncovered. Some members probably knew this all along. The dialogue of "traditional forms of art and music vs. modern art" is political by nature, since modernism is perceived by some as being liberal, leftist, Marxist, non-traditional, and even destructive of tradition. This an attitude of those traditionalists who feel their tradition is being threatened. "Modernism" equate to "liberalism" in the minds of those who have 'politicized' modern music.
You've already said all that. How about responding to the ideas of others here rather than simply repeating yourself? Repetition designed to create an illusion of validity is a common political tactic.

We will never be able to discuss modern music without it having political resonances, intended or not.
Heh heh heh. YOU may be unable to discuss modern music without doing something unintended, but WE do not have the same difficulty.
 

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Questions:

What are the musical/art preferences of left-liberal atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of left-liberal believers?
What are the musical/art preferences of right-conservative atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of right-conservative believers?
What are the musical/art preferences of libertarians who are atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of libertarians who are believers?

Answer: I don't know. :confused:
 

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Questions:

What are the musical/art preferences of left-liberal atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of left-liberal believers?
What are the musical/art preferences of right-conservative atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of right-conservative believers?
What are the musical/art preferences of libertarians who are atheists?
What are the musical/art preferences of libertarians who are believers?

Answer: I don't know. :confused:
I could tell you the preferences of more than one left-liberal atheist, and it just might shoot this thread's desired conclusions all to hell (upon which MR would go on acting as if his theoretical house of cards were still standing).
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 · (Edited)
I'm a music lover with a wide, eclectic range of taste in almost all genres and forms. I don't have a political agenda like I suspect many of the "Cage-haters" have. Politics seems to be a part of their identity and lifestyle. Of course, this is speculation, but from the evidence of that Praeger video being posted, I'd say that I'm on the track.

Too, as a genre, Classical music is an area that attracts many conservative types.
The psychology behind this? Again, speculation, but this sense of 'victimization' and 'fear' has parallels with other areas of societal conflict, such as the fear of losing one's identity and sense of empowerment.
MDIICM
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 · (Edited)
Why is my speculation in this thread creating such reactions? It's because it concerns the membership, and the perception or speculation that a segment is aligned against 'modern, avant garde, serial' music, or whatever you want to call it, for political reasons. People will listen and like whatever they want, but when Praeger videos are posted, it becomes a political statement.
MDIICM
 
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Why is my speculation in this thread creating such reactions? It's because it concerns the membership, and the perception or speculation that a segment is aligned against 'modern, avant garde, serial' music, or whatever you want to call it. People will listen and like whatever they want.....
I am astonished to read that there is a "perception or speculation" that there is "a segment...aligned against 'modern, avant garde, serial' music, or whatever you want to call it." Is this really true? Unbelievable. A revelation. Again I ask, Who knew?

But, inviting myself to speculate also, I think maybe--if there indeed is such a faction--they don't like the way the music sounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #114 ·
I am astonished to read that there is a "perception or speculation" that there is "a segment...aligned against 'modern, avant garde, serial' music, or whatever you want to call it." Is this really true? Unbelievable. A revelation. Again I ask, Who knew?

But, inviting myself to speculate also, I think maybe--if there indeed is such a faction--they don't like the way the music sounds.
When Praeger videos are posted, I think that's evidence, and it becomes a political statement.

Your response that "they don't like the way the music sounds" is rather circular, and doesn't go into any reasons why they don't like it. In 99% of cases, I think people's taste in music is linked to their social identity, which includes their politics.

Come on, speculate! After all, you might walk into a whole roomful of them someday, and it's better to be prepared.
 

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And the reason the most played classical music sounds so different from recently composed music is the same reason why vanilla ice cream is eaten more than zucchini ice cream--more people like it; it satisfies them better.
There is a discrepancy now between what the audience likes and what composers compose. And this discrepancy did not exits in the 18-19th century. During the Vienna classical period the Vienna classical period was more popular than Baroque music. But now during the New music age the New music isn't more popular than the Vienna classical period. So something changed. The composers and the musical establishment are disconnected from the audience today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #117 · (Edited)

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
There is a discrepancy now between what the audience likes and what composers compose. And this discrepancy did not exits in the 18-19th century. During the Vienna classical period the Vienna classical period was more popular than Baroque music. But now during the New music age the New music isn't more popular than the Vienna classical period. So something changed. The composers and the musical establishment are disconnected from the audience today.
A ridiculous analogy. That was back before recording, radio, TV, mass communication, cell phones, refrigeration, CDs, records, speakers, amplifiers, Cracker Jacks.......Classical music was the only game in town.

MIICMM
 

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Discussion Starter · #119 ·
I should have titled it "Has Modern Art Been Politicized On This Forum?"
MIICMM
 

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If someone was an "issues" voter, and voted for Trump because of his views on illegal (undocumented) immigration, then I can forgive them.
This is exactly why I don't speak to my brother-in-law any more, and barely speak to my sister.

When I pointed out how horrid it was that Trump referred to refugees as "a pestilence", he referred to my wife and I as "hateful, hateful people".

When my wife insisted that he apologize for saying such a thing, he, instead, apologized for me being offended by what he said. "I'm sorry you were offended by it."
 
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