[Seattleoperafan]

I saw Rigoletto 20 years ago before I was into men's voices and was sort of ho hum about it even though the singers were fine. I always liked Caro Nome but that was about it. I was given a lp boxed set a year ago and it sort of languished at the back of the pile until I got my new turntable and decided to try it. I am glad I waited as doing the contests has made me appreciate male voices so much more. Now I really love Rigoletto ( I have the one with the gorgeous voiced Milnes, Pavarotti and Sutherland). Not just the singing but the orchestration is so very beautiful. The story doesn't appeal to me so much but the music is so gorgeous it definitely has become a favorite of mine. The weaving over the voices in the first scene is exquisite and exciting and that duet between father and daughter is so gloriously beautiful! It also helped a lot that I have started following along with a libretto of late when I listened to music since I have them with lp sets. Have you changed your mind about an opera over the years?

 

[SanAntone]

It took me decades to be able to listen to and enjoy Wagner's Ring.

 

[BBSVK]

My development with Bellini:

1. An elementary school age - heard Casta diva for the first time in my life ever. A recital tape by Magdalena Hajossyova, whom you probably don't know. Gorgeous ! Awesome ! Want more Bellini ! Why do they play him on the radio so infrequently ?

2. Hurrah ! A one hour long selection of Bellini's arias on the radio. Let's record it. Man, it's sooo slooow.

3. A complete Norma on the radio, Saturday evening. Shall we record it ? Nah...

4. Cca 35 years later - Lectures about Bellini. Crazy about Bellini ! Norma as a homework. Watch Joan Sutherland in Sydney with subtitles. I am not in a mood, I still don't know La Sonnambula by heart. Why am I supposed to move on ? But OK, let's do it. Result: Crazy about Norma ! How am I supposed to work next day after seeing this wonderful opera ?

 

[ninaforesti]

Il trovatore was not a favorite of mine early on. Whether it was the oom pah pah music or that "awful" Di quella pira aria, or that stupid story so difficult to swallow, I'm not sure.
But an epihany took place one day and suddenly, thinking about it rather rationally, I decided there is a good case to be made for a mentally tormented Azucena throwing the wrong baby in the fire. It could happen.
I began to listen to the different tenors doing that devastating high note in "Di quella pira" until I actually began looking forward to it and enjoying judging the best ones.
But the one thing that brought it up to my top 10 was my favorite soprano aria D'amor sull' ali rosee. I was hooked.

 

[Seattleoperafan]

Il trovatore was not a favorite of mine early on. Whether it was the oom pah pah music or that "awful" Di quella pira aria, or that stupid story so difficult to swallow, I'm not sure.
But an epihany took place one day and suddenly, thinking about it rather rationally, I decided there is a good case to be made for a mentally tormented Azucena throwing the wrong baby in the fire. It could happen.
I began to listen to the different tenors doing that devastating high note in "Di quella pira" until I actually began looking forward to it and enjoying judging the best ones.
But the one thing that brought it up to my top 10 was my favorite soprano aria D'amor sull' ali rosee. I was hooked.

There is much wisdom in the oft quoted saying. "Stupid story but put four of the world's best singers doing it- it is magic!" The music is so wonderful. That aria is MAGIC and only great singers can really do justice to it.

 

[Belowpar]

Il trovatore was not a favorite of mine early on. Whether it was the oom pah pah music or that "awful" Di quella pira aria, or that stupid story so difficult to swallow, I'm not sure.
But an epihany took place one day and suddenly, thinking about it rather rationally, I decided there is a good case to be made for a mentally tormented Azucena throwing the wrong baby in the fire. It could happen.
I began to listen to the different tenors doing that devastating high note in "Di quella pira" until I actually began looking forward to it and enjoying judging the best ones.
But the one thing that brought it up to my top 10 was my favorite soprano aria D'amor sull' ali rosee. I was hooked.

One of the first full Opera's I fell in love with. But even with the young Carreras and Mattila it was a turkey onstage.
When the Callas boxed set was released a few years ago I give it another whirl and it wowed me. Thrilling on CD.
Back in the Opera house since and the mess of a plot just can't be ignored.
So I changed my mind and then half back.

Porgy and Bess. Saw the production that started at Glyndebourne with Clarke Peters and thought it was dull and a disconnected bunch of songs. The excellent ones dragged down by some not so good ones.
Gave it another chance with a production at the ENO. Revelatory. It may be hard to get right but I'm looking for another chance to see it.

 

[philpam1]

I saw Rigoletto 20 years ago before I was into men's voices and was sort of ho hum about it even though the singers were fine. I always liked Caro Nome but that was about it. I was given a lp boxed set a year ago and it sort of languished at the back of the pile until I got my new turntable and decided to try it. I am glad I waited as doing the contests has made me appreciate male voices so much more. Now I really love Rigoletto ( I have the one with the gorgeous voiced Milnes, Pavarotti and Sutherland). Not just the singing but the orchestration is so very beautiful. The story doesn't appeal to me so much but the music is so gorgeous it definitely has become a favorite of mine. The weaving over the voices in the first scene is exquisite and exciting and that duet between father and daughter is so gloriously beautiful! It also helped a lot that I have started following along with a libretto of late when I listened to music since I have them with lp sets. Have you changed your mind about an opera over the years?

I remarked in another thread that I was always prejudiced against Rigoletto because of the story. Funny thing is I recently had an experience the exact opposite to yours. Normally I always follow the libretto but recently I tried listening to it without it, just concentrating on the music and I began to appreciate the beauty of the music more. Nonetheless I find in most cases following the libretto greatly enhances the experience.

Verdi for me was an acquired taste but I've gradually become a passionate fan and he's now my favorite opera composer. But for a long time I was cool to Falstaff. Because of its reputation I was frustrated by my inability to appreciate it. I even bought the Dover score hoping following the score would help me appreciate it more. Unfortunately the score only gives the Italian text. Then recently I listened again to the Karajan-Gobbi recording and suddenly something ignited in me. This time I was following the libretto not the score. Falstaff is one opera where you really need to follow the words. Verdi follows every twist and turn of the text and the music by itself often lacks continuity.

La Traviata has also been growing on me. The sentimental story has always appealed to me less than more garish melodramas like Il Trovatore and La Forza.

 

[BBSVK]

I saw Rigoletto 20 years ago before I was into men's voices and was sort of ho hum about it even though the singers were fine. I always liked Caro Nome but that was about it. I was given a lp boxed set a year ago and it sort of languished at the back of the pile until I got my new turntable and decided to try it. I am glad I waited as doing the contests has made me appreciate male voices so much more. Now I really love Rigoletto ( I have the one with the gorgeous voiced Milnes, Pavarotti and Sutherland). Not just the singing but the orchestration is so very beautiful. The story doesn't appeal to me so much but the music is so gorgeous it definitely has become a favorite of mine. The weaving over the voices in the first scene is exquisite and exciting and that duet between father and daughter is so gloriously beautiful! It also helped a lot that I have started following along with a libretto of late when I listened to music since I have them with lp sets. Have you changed your mind about an opera over the years?

Before I saw Rigoletto, I knew some numbers from there, but what really grabbed me at the live performance was the sexy deep voice of Maddalena. So, not the male voice ;-)

 

[Seattleoperafan]

My development with Bellini:

1. An elementary school age - heard Casta diva for the first time in my life ever. A recital tape by Magdalena Hajossyova, whom you probably don't know. Gorgeous ! Awesome ! Want more Bellini ! Why do they play him on the radio so infrequently ?

2. Hurrah ! A one hour long selection of Bellini's arias on the radio. Let's record it. Man, it's sooo slooow.

3. A complete Norma on the radio, Saturday evening. Shall we record it ? Nah...

4. Cca 35 years later - Lectures about Bellini. Crazy about Bellini ! Norma as a homework. Watch Joan Sutherland in Sydney with subtitles. I am not in a mood, I still don't know La Sonnambula by heart. Why am I supposed to move on ? But OK, let's do it. Result: Crazy about Norma ! How am I supposed to work next day after seeing this wonderful opera ?

I used to be a major major Norma fanatic. Ponselle in the whole first scene for Norma is like one of my two or three favorite recordings and I like the story better than any other opera story by far. But as I have aged I actually think I like the music for Bellini's I Puritani more even thought the story not so much. The tenor has much better music to sing and this is one of my ultimate opera arias ever especially with the quartet singing with the soprano:

Bellini's Il Pirata is kinda stupid but that last cabelleta is so amazing but it needs a really big voice like Callas or Eaglen to make it come to life.

 

[Seattleoperafan]

I remarked in another thread that I was always prejudiced against Rigoletto because of the story. Funny thing is I recently had an experience the exact opposite to yours. Normally I always follow the libretto but recently I tried listening to it without it, just concentrating on the music and I began to appreciate the beauty of the music more. Nonetheless I find in most cases following the libretto greatly enhances the experience.

Verdi for me was an acquired taste but I've gradually become a passionate fan and he's now my favorite opera composer. But for a long time I was cool to Falstaff. Because of its reputation I was frustrated by my inability to appreciate it. I even bought the Dover score hoping following the score would help me appreciate it more. Unfortunately the score only gives the Italian text. Then recently I listened again to the Karajan-Gobbi recording and suddenly something ignited in me. This time I was following the libretto not the score. Falstaff is one opera where you really need to follow the words. Verdi follows every twist and turn of the text and the music by itself often lacks continuity.

La Traviata has also been growing on me. The sentimental story has always appealed to me less than more garish melodramas like Il Trovatore and La Forza.

I might like Falstaff if I studied it but give me big difficult arias to sing please!!!! Traviata really needs top notch principals who are not always available. I love it.

 

[Woodduck]

It's usually gone the other way with me. In my years of discovering opera I liked almost everything. Now I'm more selective. I've also run hot and cold with certain works or composers. One opera I didn't care for at first but like very much now is Puccini's Il Tabarro. On the other hand, I wouldn't care much if I never heard Boheme, Tosca or Butterfly again, though I think they're masterpieces and am happy to hear really great singing in any of them. I prefer Puccini's more acerbic, modern-sounding works, and am annoyed by operas (not only Puccini's) that wallow pathetically in the pointless and irredeemable pain of young female victims. I think it was the playwright Sardou, author of Tosca (the play), who offered a formula for theatrical success: "Torture the woman." Opera is full of suffering characters, but I don't like to feel that the composer enjoys it too much, or expects me to.

 

[Eva Yojimbo]

I prefer Puccini's more acerbic, modern-sounding works, and am annoyed by operas (not only Puccini's) that wallow pathetically in the pointless and irredeemable pain of young female victims.

I've often wondered if this is why La fanciulla del west is the most ignored (or perhaps second most ignored after La rondine) of Puccini's mature works despite having (IMHO) his best score; because its protagonist is actually a strong female character who isn't just a victim.

I think it was the playwright Sardou, author of Tosca (the play), who offered a formula for theatrical success: "Torture the woman." Opera is full of suffering characters, but I don't like to feel that the composer enjoys it too much, or expects me to.

Also sounds like Lars von Trier's formula for making films (Breaking the Waves, Dancer in the Dark, Dogville, Melancholia, etc.).

 

[Seattleoperafan]

It's usually gone the other way with me. In my years of discovering opera I liked almost everything. Now I'm more selective. I've also run hot and cold with certain works or composers. One opera I didn't care for at first but like very much now is Puccini's Il Tabarro. On the other hand, I wouldn't care much if I never heard Boheme, Tosca or Butterfly again, though I think they're masterpieces and am happy to hear really great singing in any of them. I prefer Puccini's more acerbic, modern-sounding works, and am annoyed by operas (not only Puccini's) that wallow pathetically in the pointless and irredeemable pain of young female victims. I think it was the playwright Sardou, author of Tosca (the play), who offered a formula for theatrical success: "Torture the woman." Opera is full of suffering characters, but I don't like to feel that the composer enjoys it too much, or expects me to.

Often my back of the class method of just listening to the music without the words works for me. Norma is one of the few operas who's story I really love. Most I can't relate to.

 

[Eva Yojimbo]

After falling in love with opera via Carmen it actually took me some time to appreciate pre-Romantic period operas, including those by Mozart and Handel. Glad I stuck with it as now Mozart's operas are all among my absolute favorites, as are many of Handel's. There are plenty of other operas where my opinions have shifted slightly higher or lower over time, but I can't think of any where there's been a hugely dramatic shift. Perhaps Verdi's Falstaff is one it took me several listens to appreciate its genius after coming to it from loving Verdi's more "tuneful" operas like Rigoletto and La Traviata and now it's among my top 10. There are also a few operas I was enamored with when I first started listening to opera--Boris Godunov comes to mind--that don't enthrall me as much anymore.

 

[Kreisler jr]

Last time I checked, the fugitive and Cavaradossi are tortured and die. Tosca kills in self defense and commits suicide. So whatever the formula is, in "Tosca" we have three dead men (at least one of them tortured) for one female suicide...

 

[Woodduck]

I've often wondered if this is why La fanciulla del west is the most ignored (or perhaps second most ignored after La rondine) of Puccini's mature works despite having (IMHO) his best score; because its protagonist is actually a strong female character who isn't just a victim.

I think that's more than plausible.

Although I don't think it's musically better than several other works of his, Fanciulla is my favorite Puccini, with Il Tabarro next. My enjoyment falls off rapidly after those two.

 

[ninaforesti]

The most dramatic change for me was when 2 different opera lovers from the NYTimes OF desperately wanted me to love Wozzeck so they each sent me a cd. I settled in my car and listened intently to the first one thinking that at some point I'd "get it" but no luck.
Okay, I'll give it another try tomorrow. Again -- no luck.
The 3rd time was still not the charm. I hated it all 3 times.
Fast forward a year later when it was on the Met schedule, and being that our NY apartment was only 3 blocks from the Met our opera friends encouraged me to go with them because it was so short.
Eureka!!! An epiphany!!!! It took a live performance to wake me up to the beauty of the music and the tragedy of the piece which itself had touched my heart.
I've seen it 3 more times since then.

 

[philpam1]

First of all, atonal music is an acquired taste for most people, including me, and some people never acquire it. There's no shame in that. It's a style that's had its day, or should have. Second, if there's an opera where you need to follow the text, whether it's from a printed libretto or in a video it's Wozzeck. As a matter of fact I think it applies to most post-Wagnerian "through-composed" "endless melody": or whatever-you- want-to-call-them operas generally. It's much easier to enjoy the traditional numbers-operas just for the music although you still lose a lot without knowing the text.

 

[Woodduck]

Last time I checked, the fugitive and Cavaradossi are tortured and die. Tosca kills in self defense and commits suicide. So whatever the formula is, in "Tosca" we have three dead men (at least one of them tortured) for one female suicide...

It isn't a question of who gets killed, but of how much the author seems to enjoy torturing them. It's true that Cavaradossi receives his share, but Cavaradossi isn't much of a personage and it's hard to care about him. Scarpia's victimization of Tosca is the heart of the opera, and Cavaradossi's torture is basically a plot device for increasing her pain.

I no longer care much for Tosca, but in the 1964 Covent Garden film of Act 2 with Callas and Gobbi the singing and acting are so powerful that I've lost count of the number of times I've watched it. The power of Callas has the effect of defying and negating the victimhood of the character she plays, even while doing it full justice. That lifts melodrama to the level of tragedy, making the work into something superior to itself. No other performance I've seen accomplishes that.

 

[Woodduck]

Often my back of the class method of just listening to the music without the words works for me. Norma is one of the few operas who's story I really love. Most I can't relate to.

One hopes not.