[khoff999]

For the Classically trained musicians among us which include a lion-share of Jazzers, there is a great divide between Folk Arts(Rock and Roll, Blues, Folk, etc.) and music which requires formal training. "Folk" music is limited since the "player's" knowledge is limited and there's always a terminus to their creativity based on technique and education. Johnny Boy is a prime example of this reality and his oft-repeated tiring "licks" are testimony to this reality.

Sorry, no. Depp's lack of skill is because he is not because of a lack of formal education. There are plenty of great musicians, both jazz and rock, who had no formal education. Depp is just not one of them. I doubt he ever spent the long hours of practicing required to be a serious guitar player.

Joey Alexander was an extremely talented prodigy who is now an extremely talented adult. He is deserving of his own thread. I just can't figure out what he has to do with this one. You seemed to have missed the point of why I posted the video of the little girl.

 

[FrankE]

Fair enough on the playing.
The text though. Ugh, lad culture and from the 90s ladette culture.

 

[Viajero]

Sorry, no. Depp's lack of skill is because he is not because of a lack of formal education. There are plenty of great musicians, both jazz and rock, who had no formal education. Depp is just not one of them. I doubt he ever spent the long hours of practicing required to be a serious guitar player.

Joey Alexander was an extremely talented prodigy who is now an extremely talented adult. He is deserving of his own thread. I just can't figure out what he has to do with this one. You seemed to have missed the point of why I posted the video of the little girl.

Hi, K,
I didn't say Depp's lack of skill is due to his lack of formal education. What I said/meant was that formal training is required for excellence whether in an institution of higher learning or through self-study as many historic Jazzers biographies reveal. In re: Depp's hours of practice time . . . I agree.
So, what was the point about the little girl? I missed it. Thanks in advance.
Viajero

 

[khoff999]

Hi, K,
I didn't say Depp's lack of skill is due to his lack of formal education. What I said/meant was that formal training is required for excellence whether in an institution of higher learning or through self-study as many historic Jazzers biographies reveal. In re: Depp's hours of practice time . . . I agree.

Hi Viajero,

It seemed to me you were saying that because it is 'folk music' (used broadly, as in "not art") his licks are tired. I agree that rock music can be classified broadly as 'folk music', there are not just great jazz musicians who studied informally, there are also plenty of top rock guitarists whose playing I don't consider to be tired.

I don't think his boring playing has anything to do with it being any specific genre of music, but along with his not practicing much, I think you're probably right that he spent little time getting serious input from anyone who knew how to play the guitar well. I never knew of anyone who became an excellent instrumentalist that didn't listen intently to, and take advice in some way from, other accomplished instrumentalists, as well as practice like crazy.

My posting the video of the little girl was just to mock someone's claim that they could tell that Depp's video showed him 'embracing what he's playing' and a 'true expression of his soul'. It didn't have anything to do with the little girl's ability or was about her age. She seemed to me to be trying much harder than Depp to play some decent music.

 

[norman bates]

Hi, K,
I didn't say Depp's lack of skill is due to his lack of formal education. What I said/meant was that formal training is required for excellence whether in an institution of higher learning or through self-study as many historic Jazzers biographies reveal.

Onestly I disagree with this. Of course formal education brings a lot of advantages, but there are also musicians without any formal training that have definitely reached levels of excellence. Maybe their music does not have the formal complexity of a symphony, but there are musicians who are able to create things that no formal training could teach and I can definitely mention examples for blues, jazz, folk and rock music.

 

[Merl]

As someone who can't solo (I'm a strictly rhythm guitarist), I'm not going to knock Mr. Depp for being able to do something I can't be bothered having a go at but if you're comparing it to advanced / pro players it's really very basic soloing. It's mainly made up of slides and hitting the right single notes rather than combos. Phrasing is clunky at best and there's little variation in what he's playing. Personally I'd be happy being able to do any solo but I'm suspecting he's been shown some rudimentary soloing techniques (he's had a lot of lessons, btw) and he's just thrown them together. At the end of the day he enjoys playing, like we all do, and I can't fault him on that. I wish I had his connections (would have been nice to get guitar lessons from Jeff Beck), money and time to practise, though.

 

[Captainnumber36]

As someone who can't solo (I'm a strictly rhythm guitarist), I'm not going to knock Mr. Depp for being able to do something I can't be bothered having a go at but if you're comparing it to advanced / pro players it's really very basic soloing. It's mainly made up of slides and hitting the right single notes rather than combos. Phrasing is clunky at best and there's little variation in what he's playing. Personally I'd be happy being able to do any solo but I'm suspecting he's been shown some rudimentary soloing techniques (he's had a lot of lessons, btw) and he's just thrown them together. At the end of the day he enjoys playing, like we all do, and I can't fault him on that. I wish I had his connections (would have been nice to get guitar lessons from Jeff Beck), money and time to practise, though.

Agree, I think he shows a sense of self in his playing and it runs deep. He could benefit from incorporating and expanding his palette of ideas, and that would come from listening to much music that inspires him and taking his favorite parts from it and creating his sound.

My preference is for the eccentric and colorful. I think he prefer a more macho sound!

 

[Phil loves classical]

I find his playing here pretty generic. Not bad, but nothing notable, or even the least bit of individuality or personal touch.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I find his playing here pretty generic. Not bad, but nothing notable, or even the least bit of individuality or personal touch.

I agree it's generic and nothing new, but tried and true is marketable and lucrative. I think if he wants to be an innovator and create something genius, he needs to expand his consciousness with mind exercises. This is done through free association and breaking down what it means to you and making meaningful connections.

 

[khoff999]

I agree it's generic and nothing new, but tried and true is marketable and lucrative. I think if he wants to be an innovator and create something genius, he needs to expand his consciousness with mind exercises.

I think Depp has done plenty of mind expansion, but his techniques are different than yours. If he wants to be an innovator, he better get going. He's 59. But who knows, he may become the Grandpa Moses of guitar playing.

 

[khoff999]

Here's a couple videos of him playing with Jeff Beck. Only one of them plays lead guitar, guess which one. But he does a decent job of singing the songs. I've watched about 12 of his videos and can't find one where he plays an actual solo. If someone can find one, please post it.

 

[Captainnumber36]

I think Depp has done plenty of mind expansion, but his techniques are different than yours. If he wants to be an innovator, he better get going. He's 59. But who knows, he may become the Grandpa Moses of guitar playing.

I think he's got a long way to go. His characters in his films are creative yet lack a deep and sophisticated analysis in his portrayals.

 

[khoff999]

I think he's got a long way to go.

You already labeled him a "great guitarist" in the thread title and now you think he has a long way to go? A long way to go to what? Being a great, great guitarist? Jeff Beck was a great guitarist. Calling Depp a great guitarist is a lot of hyperbolic nonsense.

I don't see anything that says he wants to go anyplace. Looks to me like he's having a great time singing and playing some power chords and that's about it. Some demonstration that he actually learned the scales at some point might help me to think he cares about seriously playing the guitar.

 

[Captainnumber36]

You already labeled him a "great guitarist" in the thread title and now you think he has a long way to go? A long way to go to what? Being a great, great guitarist? Jeff Beck was a great guitarist. Calling Depp a great guitarist is a lot of hyperbolic nonsense.

I don't see anything that says he wants to go anyplace. Looks to me like he's having a great time singing and playing some power chords and that's about it. Some demonstration that he actually learned the scales at some point might help me to think he cares about seriously playing the guitar.

It wasn't the most accurate or logically derived title. It was more emotionally based hoping to show enthusiasm for this side of his artistic endeavors.

You may be right that he just wants to have fun with it and not be so serious of an artist. It's in line with the rest of his art.

 

[Eva Yojimbo]

For the Classically trained musicians among us which include a lion-share of Jazzers, there is a great divide between Folk Arts(Rock and Roll, Blues, Folk, etc.) and music which requires formal training. "Folk" music is limited since the "player's" knowledge is limited and there's always a terminus to their creativity based on technique and education. Johnny Boy is a prime example of this reality and his oft-repeated tiring "licks" are testimony to this reality.

No argument about Depp, or about Joey Alexander, but I have to take issue with the rest here. Plenty of jazzers had little to no formal education, including most of the most influential ones. There are also quite a few rock guys, especially in the sub-genres of prog rock/prog metal, that have had formal education. All the members of the band Dream Theater, to take one example, met at Berklee. Further, I don't think a lack of formal education puts much of any terminus on creativity; it may be true they can't create what they can't play, but The Beatles are proof you don't have to be virtuosos or know music theory to create revolutionary, immensely creative music. Formal education is the equivalent of giving a painter a bigger palette, but they still have to have the creative mind to know what to do with it, and you can't teach that.

 

[Eva Yojimbo]

As someone who can't solo (I'm a strictly rhythm guitarist), I'm not going to knock Mr. Depp for being able to do something I can't be bothered having a go at but if you're comparing it to advanced / pro players it's really very basic soloing. It's mainly made up of slides and hitting the right single notes rather than combos. Phrasing is clunky at best and there's little variation in what he's playing.

As someone who can solo (not well, but good enough to play along to some of my favorite songs) I can confirm that everything Depp is doing here is barely even rudimentary or basic. This is stuff you could teach a beginner in less than a week probably. That's why I said in my first post I wasn't even sure it was a proper solo as opposed to him playing along with a bit on a track or being told to just add a basic blues bit.

For anyone who wants to know what proper blues soloing is like (and playing from deep within your soul):

 

[Captainnumber36]

No argument about Depp, or about Joey Alexander, but I have to take issue with the rest here. Plenty of jazzers had little to no formal education, including most of the most influential ones. There are also quite a few rock guys, especially in the sub-genres of prog rock/prog metal, that have had formal education. All the members of the band Dream Theater, to take one example, met at Berklee. Further, I don't think a lack of formal education puts much of any terminus on creativity; it may be true they can't create what they can't play, but The Beatles are proof you don't have to be virtuosos or know music theory to create revolutionary, immensely creative music. Formal education is the equivalent of giving a painter a bigger palette, but they still have to have the creative mind to know what to do with it, and you can't teach that.

I agree with your sentiments here to the T!

 

[Captainnumber36]

As someone who can solo (not well, but good enough to play along to some of my favorite songs) I can confirm that everything Depp is doing here is barely even rudimentary or basic. This is stuff you could teach a beginner in less than a week probably. That's why I said in my first post I wasn't even sure it was a proper solo as opposed to him playing along with a bit on a track or being told to just add a basic blues bit.

For anyone who wants to know what proper blues soloing is like (and playing from deep within your soul):

This post fails to realize that complexity isn't something all look for in their art. In fact, the masses prefer elegance, like the scientific concept.

 

[khoff999]

For anyone who wants to know what proper blues soloing is like (and playing from deep within your soul):

He sounds like someone who practiced some scales. He probably learned how to do that at Julliard.

 

[Eva Yojimbo]

This post fails to realize that complexity isn't something all look for in their art. In fact, the masses prefer elegance, like the scientific concept.

I'm well aware that complexity isn't an innate virtue in art. The issue isn't the simplicity but the lack of originality, the fact that everything Depp does is not only an ancient blues cliche, but that those cliches aren't even utilized in fresh ways. It's basically just neck slide -> hit note -> neck slide -> bend note -> neck slide -> blues lick. That SRV track I posted is full of blues cliches too (it's very hard to play the blues without cliches), but they're at least utilized in fresh ways that provide an incredibly unique, instantly recognizable voice and style. Give even a snippet of that to most guitarists and they'd instantly know it was SRV because nobody really sounds like him.

Speaking of blues cliches, here's a track that was written for the explicit purpose of screwing around with those cliches: