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If there is a real tragedy in Tristan und Isolde it is that Tristan's death really IS "pathetic" by itself, a misunderstanding by him - he who ironically was Isolde's "teacher" in this whole business as I point out in my S&F article - about death and its nature in the eternal union of two lovers. As always with Wagner, it is Isolde, the female, who finally understands everything and understands just what death in this context actually means, and it is she who makes the eternal union with her Tristan possible for them both by her Verklärung and by so doing lifts the music-drama above the level of mere tragedy and into the realm of the radiantly transcendent.

As to W's stage directions, there may be no direct statement that Isolde is still living, but, then, there's none that directly indicate she's ordinarily dead either. Hence, the ambiguity I note in my article.

Oh, and as to those "Leichen" Marke blesses, there are some half-dozen or so of them scattered about the scene here and there.

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No, AC! No, no, no, no, no! And did I say "no"? :)

1. A "pathetic misunderstanding" is not a tragedy.

2. There is no indication that Isolde "understands" anything. Her last words before her vision of his transfiguration are to chide Tristan for dying without her. That leaves only her dying song to express an "understanding" of the situation, which it plainly does not. It is in fact quite meaningless except as a poetic verbalization of her hallucinations.

3. How often in Wagner does the woman "understand" everything? Senta? Elisabeth? Elsa? Eva? Kundry? Only Brunnhilde, to some extent - but even about her you admit that her eulogy of siegfried as a "hero" rings false. And does she ever really understand that "love" does not bring "redemption"?

4. Isolde does not make "the eternal union with her Tristan possible for them," with her Verklaerung or with anything else. Nothing can make it possible, because there is no such thing as eternal union. That is the point. Union was a dream they shared, as so many lovers share it, only to learn how unreal it is. Death together is their only possible "union."

5. Tragedy is not "mere." And this tragedy is the death, not of two people only, but of the notion that the realm of the "radiantly transcendent" you speak of can be reached through passion. This is the lesson Wagner took from Schopenhauer and quite consciously embodied here. All his operas, beginning with this one, expose or renounce that fantasy. Tristan, as I've said, was Wagner's final, exhaustive tribute to the ideals and longings of his youth, now viewed as sweet illusions. He wanted it to drain passion dry, to be a monument to the thing he now knew could never be attained. It's insight that brings dignity to suffering, and which raises mere pathos to tragedy. The insight is not Isolde's, but Wagner's.

6. Wagner's directions are unambiguous: "Mark blesses the corpses." To suggest, as you do, that he was referring to various now irrelevant dead bodies scattered around the stage is, as you know perfectly well, ludicrous. Wagner never committed an aesthetic crime like that.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 

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No, no, no, no, no, no.

1. A "pathetic misunderstanding" is not a tragedy.

2. There is no indication that Isolde "understands" anything. Her last words before her vision of his transfiguration are to chide Tristan for dying without her. That leaves only her dying song to express an "understanding" of the situation, which it plainly does not. It is in fact quite meaningless except as a poetic verbalization of her hallucinations.

3. How often in Wagner does the woman "understand" everything? Senta? Elisabeth? Elsa? Eva? Kundry? Only Brunnhilde, to some extent - but even about her you admit that her eulogy of siegfried as a "hero" rings false. And does she ever really understand that "love" does not bring "redemption"?

4. Isolde does not make "the eternal union with her Tristan possible for them," with her Verklaerung or with anything else. Nothing can make it possible, because there is no such thing as eternal union. That is the point. Union was a dream they shared, as so many lovers share it, only to learn how impossible it is. Death together is their only possible "union."

5. Tragedy is not "mere." And this tragedy is the death, not of two people only, but of the notion that the realm of the "radiantly transcendent" you speak of can be reached through passion. This is the lesson Wagner took from Schopenhauer and quite consciously embodied here. All his operas after this renounce that fantasy. Tristan, as I've said, was Wagner's final, exhaustive tribute to the ideals and longings of his youth, now viewed as sweet illusions. He wanted it to drain passion dry, to be a monument to the thing he now knew could never be attained.

6. Wagner's directions are unambiguous: "Mark blesses the corpses." To suggest, as you do, that he was referring to all the dead bodies scattered around the stage is, as you know perfectly well, ludicrous.
No, no, no, no, no, no!

To respond in numbered order:

1: I didn't write "pathetic misunderstanding". I wrote that Tristan's ordinary death by his own doing made his death pathetic and in itself tragic as it was a result of his misunderstanding of the nature of death in the matter of a lover's eternal union with his or her beloved, as the case may be.

2: Forget the words. LISTEN TO THE MUSIC!

3: Yes, all of them but especially Brünnhilde. B was NOT looking to redeem anything but ultimately understood that the ring had to be returned to the Rhine in order to make everything right again and in the Ring that's understanding everything.

4: Of course eternal union exists and is possible for lovers in Wagner's universe(s). If you don't grasp that, then you don't grasp the essence of the Wagnerian mythological ethos, Schopenhauer or no Schopenhauer.

5: You are of course free to imagine anything you wish, but in NO WAY is Tristan "Wagner's final, exhaustive tribute to the ideals and longings of his youth, now viewed as sweet illusions." Tristan is W's affirmation that although those "ideals and longings of his youth" were (and probably still are) denied him realization personally they are nevertheless real, achievable possibilities. Ergo, Tristan und Isolde.

6: Nothing "ludicrous" about it. It is, I'm fairly certain, just what W intended to be understood by that stage direction, ambiguous as it is.

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Sorry folks, as much as Tristan is beautiful, my favorite opera is still Parsifal. For me, Tristan is a stepping stone towards that ultimate summation.
 
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Sorry folks, as much as Tristan is beautiful, my favorite opera is still Parsifal. For me, Tristan is a stepping stone towards that ultimate summation.
That's possible.............
 

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No, no, no, no, no, no!

To respond in numbered order:

1: I didn't write "pathetic misunderstanding". I wrote that Tristan's ordinary death by his own doing made his death pathetic and in itself tragic as it was a result of his misunderstanding of the nature of death in the matter of a lover's eternal union with his or her beloved, as the case may be.

2: Forget the words. LISTEN TO THE MUSIC!

3: Yes, all of them but especially Brünnhilde. B was NOT looking to redeem anything but ultimately understood that the ring had to be returned to the Rhine in order to make everything right again and in the Ring that's understanding everything.

4: Of course eternal union exists and is possible for lovers in Wagner's universe(s). If you don't grasp that, then you don't grasp the essence of the Wagnerian mythological ethos, Schopenhauer or no Schopenhauer.

5: You are of course free to imagine anything you wish, but in NO WAY is Tristan "Wagner's final, exhaustive tribute to the ideals and longings of his youth, now viewed as sweet illusions." Tristan is W's affirmation that although those "ideals and longings of his youth" were (and probably still are) denied him personally they are nevertheless real, achievable possibilities. Ergo, Tristan und Isolde.

6: Nothing "ludicrous" about it. It is, I'm fairly certain, just what W intended to be understood by that stage direction, ambiguous as it is.

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I am very surprised that anyone who has studied the life of Wagner, his intellectual development, the revolutionary influence of Schopenhauer on his worldview, his own constant testimony to it, the profound alteration in the meaning of his own Ring cycle after Tristan, and the renunciation, embodied explicitly in every one of his works after Siegfried, of precisely the notion of the redeeming power of erotic love, could actually believe in the reality of any sort of mystical union of Tristan and Isolde outside of Isolde's imaginings.

Tristan represented the transitional moment in Wagner's thinking and work. It is simultaneously a celebration of eros - which the young Wagner regarded as a redemptive force for the individual and society - and a renunciation of it in the post-Schopenhauer recognition of sexual passion as the quintessential representation of the ever-striving and never-satisfied "will" which must be overcome (and is, in Parsifal). The ultimate mythic symbol for the extinction of the "will" is death - total oblivion. And this is the union - the only union - which Tristan and Isolde attain. For Tristan and Isolde actually to be shown to achieve some kind of fabulous "mystic union" - as opposed to such occurring only in the mind of Isolde - the pair would at least have to be shown to die together. But Wagner renounces, specifically denies them and us, that symbolism: Tristan dies without Isolde, and she, devastated, goes off into a mental world of her own. In no way can this disastrous irony be read as a mystic union. Do you actually suppose the dead Tristan is waiting in some sort of celestial vestibule for Isolde to catch up with him? (And, btw, I have listened to the music. A million times. It nowhere says that Isolde has attained "understanding." In which bar and modulation is that message contained?)

To quote you, "you are of course free to imagine anything you wish." If you must have a "happily ever after" view of the story, you must need to have it for some reason I haven't yet seen an argument for. But your last point, I fear, remains beyond any credibility. The whole idea of Marke "blessing" - by what procedure, exactly? Leaving the lovers and running about sprinkling holy water? - a bunch of bodies scattered all over the stage, upstage and down, half of whom are of no dramatic interest when all our focus is properly on the lovers, is utterly risible as a dramatic idea or a bit of stagecraft. At this final moment I'd just echo your advice to listen to the music, and decide where our undivided attention belongs.
 

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Before making response to your last, Woodduck, let me first correct the omission of a crucial word in my own last post (which I've just corrected).

I wrote: "Tristan is W's affirmation that although those "ideals and longings of his youth" were (and probably still are) denied him personally they are nevertheless real, achievable possibilities." That should have read (the omitted word here in all caps): "Tristan is W's affirmation that although those "ideals and longings of his youth" were (and probably still are) denied him REALIZATION personally they are nevertheless real, achievable possibilities."

Now, on to my response to your last.

I am very surprised that anyone who has studied the life of Wagner, his intellectual development, the revolutionary influence of Schopenhauer on his worldview, his own constant testimony to it, the profound alteration in the meaning of his own Ring cycle after Tristan, and the renunciation, embodied explicitly in every one of his works after Siegfried, of precisely the notion of the redeeming power of erotic love, could actually believe in the reality of any sort of mystical union of Tristan and Isolde outside of Isolde's imaginings.
Do you imagine it was W's intention to end this music-drama tragically by turning Isolde into a grief-stricken, hallucinating madwoman who expires on the spot falling finally dead upon the breast of her already dead-by-his-own-doing lover Tristan? That's what you seem to be saying here. But if that was truly W's intent he wrote some inexplicably malapropos music to express that and gave the episode an inexplicably malapropos designation (viz., a Verklärung). To quote myself (from my linked SF piece):

=== Begin Quote ===
Well, if dead-dead [that is, ordinarily dead] for them both [i.e., Tristan and Isolde] is what Wagner had wanted, it could certainly have been a valid ending to this music-drama - were it not for the music, that is. Had Wagner envisaged dead-dead for his two lovers, then he would not - could not - have written the music he did for the music-drama's close; music ending, as it does, with that sublime [long-awaited] resolution in the orchestra.... Dead-dead for both lovers would have made for a pathetically tragic close to the music-drama and there's nothing of the pathetically tragic in the closing music of Tristan und Isolde.
=== End Quote ===

Tristan represented the transitional moment in Wagner's thinking and work. It is simultaneously a celebration of eros - which the young Wagner regarded as a redemptive force for the individual and society - and a renunciation of it in the post-Schopenhauer recognition of sexual passion as the quintessential representation of the ever-striving and never-satisfied "will" which must be overcome (and is, in Parsifal). The ultimate mythic symbol for the extinction of the "will" is death - total oblivion. And this is the union - the only union - which Tristan and Isolde attain.
That's correct. Total oblivion in the desire- and delusion-ridden realm of Day, and eternal union in the desire- and delusion-free realm of Night, to use W's symbols for those two realms. To quote once again from my linked S&F piece:

=== Begin Quote ===
Isolde, however, in keeping with Wagner's career-long way with his heroines, does finally understand, but comes to that understanding only at drama's close when confronted with the dead Tristan (it's not for nothing that Wagner takes the music for the Verklärung from the music of the [Act II] Liebesnacht almost note for note). And what Isolde comes to understand in a moment of radiant clarity is that ordinary death is not the way to that transcendent realm of Night free of desire and delusion, but rather, to use the apposite Schopenhauerian construction, that a surrender of the Will to life (the abode of which Will is, of course, the deceiving realm of Day) is the only transport to that transcendent realm wherein she and Tristan will become one with the World Soul,

far from the sun,
far from the day's
lamentations....
[...]
enfolded in sweet darkness.
Without separating,
without parting,
dearly alone,
ever at one,
in unbounded space....
[...]
No more Tristan!
[...]
No more Isolde!
[...]
No names,
no parting;
[...]
ever, unendingly,
one consciousness....

And so Wagner has Isolde sinkt, wie verklärt [sink as if transfigured] in a state of höchste Lust [supreme bliss] in that surrender rather than merely sinkt [sink] or sinkt entseelt [sink lifeless] as would be his typical direction at such a point, and then gives to the orchestra - and the drama - that sublime resolution at music-drama's close because with Isolde's transfiguration she becomes, as declared in the mystical metaphysics of the Liebesnacht, "one consciousness," both Tristan and Isolde, which could in no way have been the case had Isolde herself ended up ordinarily dead to "join" the already ordinarily dead Tristan.
=== End Quote ===

[Y]our last point, I fear, remains beyond any credibility. The whole idea of Marke "blessing" - by what procedure, exactly? Leaving the lovers and running about sprinkling holy water? - a bunch of bodies scattered all over the stage, upstage and down, half of whom are of no dramatic interest when all our focus is properly on the lovers, is utterly risible as a dramatic idea or a bit of stagecraft.
Don't be absurd. Engage your theatrical imagination, please, (which I assume you possess in at least a rudimentary degree). Marke merely has to stand close to the collapsed but entwined bodies of Isolde and Tristan and with his hand or hands make some sort of silent sign of blessing and then, merely turning while standing in the same spot, face the rest of the fallen bodies scattered about the stage and make the same silent sign.

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My two cents:

In Wagner's opera, Tristan and Isolde both die. (Point to Woodduck)

People don't attain mystical union in death. They're just dead. (Point to Woodduck)

Wagner thought otherwise, at least within the fictional world of his opera. (Point to AC Douglas)

Wagner's closing music evokes ecstatic transcendence, not pathetic tragedy. (Point to AC Douglas)

Marke blesses the corpses of Tristan and Isolde, not some random bodies strewn around him. (Point to Woodduck)
 

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But it's Marke himself who explicitly calls attention to those "random bodies strewn around him," ("All are dead then? All dead!").

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And then he addresses some nine verse lines to Tristan specifically, trying to awaken his "faithless, faithful friend" from death. Shortly thereafter, he directs an additional fourteen lines to Isolde, announcing his belated understanding of the true circumstances and his intention to unite the two lovers. And *then* he witnesses Isolde's final rapturous Verklärung.

After all that, I'm not inclined to believe his thoughts are much taken with anything beyond the two lovers.
 

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And then he addresses some nine verse lines to Tristan specifically, trying to awaken his "faithless, faithful friend" from death. Shortly thereafter, he directs an additional fourteen lines to Isolde, announcing his belated understanding of the true circumstances and his intention to unite the two lovers. And *then* he witnesses Isolde's final rapturous Verklärung.

After all that, I'm not inclined to believe his thoughts are much taken with anything beyond the two lovers.
Like all personal responses to whatever, there's no gainsaying another's feelings. I, on the other hand, am inclined to believe that, like a good king which Marke unquestionably is, he would also have his newly dead countrymen in his thoughts as well.

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Like all personal responses to whatever, there's no gainsaying another's feelings. I, on the other hand, am inclined to believe that, like a good king which Marke unquestionably is, he would also have his newly dead countrymen in his thoughts as well.
It's a bit of a moot point, since such an understanding of Wagner's plural "die Leichen" only becomes necessary if you believe Isolde herself is not dead. *That's* the main argument of your blog post, and the real issue to address.

Not to be too literal about it, but if Isolde is not "ordinarily dead" at the end of the opera, but rather has achieved a Schopenhauerian "surrender of the Will to life" leading her to a "transcendent realm wherein she and Tristan will become one with the World Soul," this raises at least two questions:

1) How is such a union possible, when you acknowledge that Tristan *is* "ordinarily dead"? Wouldn't *both* lovers have to achieve such a transcendent state in order to be ultimately united? I know you maintain that, by the end, Isolde all by herself has become "'one consciousness," "both Tristan and Isolde," but this sounds more delusionally solipsistic than sublimely transcendent.

2) In even more practical terms, what does such a state of "surrendering of the Will to life" *mean*? If Isolde is not dead, what sort of fate would you envision for her after the events of the opera? How, in any real sense, does she *maintain* such a transcendent state while still in the midst of the harsh daylight world? Of course, you may maintain that such speculation takes us outside the permissible bounds of the text. Nonetheless, it's hard not to be puzzled on that point given the scenario you present.
 

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As I posted in the other thread, my absolute favorite Tristans on CD are by Bohm and Bernstein - both the fastest and slowest on record. Modern-day Isolde for me is Waltraud Meier, but not in the La Scala production... the bleeding is awful... just to make sure you know what's going on... because modern-day opera goers are so clueless.
 

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As I posted in the other thread, my absolute favorite Tristans on CD are by Bohm and Bernstein - both the fastest and slowest on record. Modern-day Isolde for me is Waltraud Meier, but not in the La Scala production... the bleeding is awful... just to make sure you know what's going on... because modern-day opera goers are so clueless.
I went to see live that production and I found it awesome... Maybe I'm clueless...
 

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Is there any DVD out there that has Isolde holding Tristan in her arms as she dies as Wagner intended?

The ones I've seen are awful.
Isolde dies properly in the Kollo/Jones/Friedrich DVD, collapsing upon Tristan's dead body at the end.

Of course it is not clear whether this is due to the inextricable bond of love between them, or simply old age (Gwyneth Jones well past her prime here).
 

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Isolde dies properly in the Kollo/Jones/Friedrich DVD, collapsing upon Tristan's dead body at the end.

Of course it is not clear whether this is due to the inextricable bond of love between them, or simply old age (Gwyneth Jones well past her prime here).
As at least two conductorsx have died while conducting it, it's no wonder Isolde dies while singng it!
 

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Not to be too literal about it, but if Isolde is not "ordinarily dead" at the end of the opera, but rather has achieved a Schopenhauerian "surrender of the Will to life" leading her to a "transcendent realm wherein she and Tristan will become one with the World Soul"... what sort of fate would you envision for her after the events of the opera? How, in any real sense, does she *maintain* such a transcendent state while still in the midst of the harsh daylight world?
Cornish winters are long and gloomy. Medieval castles are cold and drafty. There isn't much to do. Isolde and Mark would have plenty of time to sit by the fire, quaff honeyed mead, share happy memories, and read Schopenhauer. Or at least Alan Watts.
 
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