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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Lots of D.K. effect going on in this thread.
It's just sparring, but only the truth hurts - when you have a lot of music and each piece is very different, very little can hurt - the criticism is about something you've already moved on from.

Mike has held on to the grudge for a while now, so I can only imagine that what you see is what you get and it's his best work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
In the field of psychology, the Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence.
Overall we have a better capacity to judge what was in the past than what's in the present, if the present is different from that past. It's only in the present moment that the ego or thymos takes over, and if you don't move on from that feeling into logos then your pride is forever tied up in it.

So in the end it's just pride, and composers being as self absorbed as they are no wonder this sparring goes on. I think it's pretty funny; it's entertaining.
 

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It's just sparring, but only the truth hurts - when you have a lot of music and each piece is very different, very little can hurt - the criticism is about something you've already moved on from.

Mike has held on to the grudge for a while now, so I can only imagine that what you see is what you get and it's his best work.
I still can't take you seriously, your just not good enough as a composer to have any effect. What was it that put you on a path of compositional guesswork and pastiche, a failed audition at a music college? Perhaps you failed the aural test. Did they ask you to recognise chords with more than 4 notes or perhaps ask you to write some triple counterpoint? it's a shame really because it would have been good for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
I still can't take you seriously, your just not good enough as a composer to have any effect. What was it that put you on a path of compositional guesswork and pastiche, a failed audition at a music college? Perhaps you failed the aural test. Did they ask you to recognise chords with more than 4 notes or perhaps ask you to write some triple counterpoint? it's a shame really because it would have been good for you.
You can't take me seriously yet you've kept this grudge for years, God knows what would happen to you if someone you admired gave a negative opinion on your work. You can't be this fragile, it's unhealthy.
 

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You can't take me seriously yet you've kept this grudge for years, God knows what would happen to you if someone you admired gave a negative opinion on your work. You can't be this fragile, it's unhealthy.
No grudge David, just pity for you having to try and match your ability to your absurd aspirations. I don't think our spat isn't even a year old yet. No, speaking professionally, I cannot take you seriously at all and neither will others unless you buck up. Funnily enough, I've not had a negative opinion on my recorded music so far, quite the opposite and a well known violinist in the UK has just got back to me to say that my new violin concerto is lovely....go figure. If I ever should get negativity (you don't count), then my 25 years in the heat of battle within media work will have put me in good stead because that coalface aint for pussies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
No grudge David, just pity for you having to try and match your ability to your absurd aspirations. I don't think our spat isn't even a year old yet. No, speaking professionally, I cannot take you seriously at all and neither will others unless you buck up. Funnily enough, I've not had a negative opinion on my recorded music so far, quite the opposite and a well known violinist in the UK has just got back to me to say that my new violin concerto is lovely....go figure. If I ever should get negativity (you don't count), then my 25 years in the heat of battle within media work will have put me in good stead because that coalface aint for pussies.
I haven't taken you seriously since I heard your music, just learning about how a composer's ego can blind him. I was honest about your work (it was more than year ago), yet you have no ability to let go of this. It all makes sense.

I'm not over-attached to my work because it represents something else; you do the contrary and there was something to learn there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
I come to this thread for the entertainment. Never disappointing.
I know right, it's even funnier to be in it. Just when I'm getting bored Mike saves the day, it's a version of the Socratic method, and it's worked wonders. Being immune to criticism is essential to every artist and what he's done is exactly what to avoid doing, and I know the mental process of it now and how to stop it. Logos over thymos.

"Never let oneself be guided by the opinion of one's contemporaries. Continue steadfastly on one's way."

Gustav Mahler
 

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I know right, it's even funnier to be in it. Just when I'm getting bored Mike saves the day, it's a version of the Socratic method, and it's worked wonders. Being immune to criticism is essential to every artist and what he's done is exactly what to avoid doing, and I know the mental process of it now and how to stop it. Logos over thymos.

"Never let oneself be guided by the opinion of one's contemporaries. Continue steadfastly on one's way."

Gustav Mahler
I'm still not convinced at all by your technique. What are some of your more obvious examples?
 

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I haven't taken you seriously since I heard your music, just learning about how a composer's ego can blind him. I was honest about your work (it was more than year ago), yet you have no ability to let go of this. It all makes sense.

I'm not over-attached to my work because it represents something else; you do the contrary and there was something to learn there.
"How a composers' ego can blind him"...am I the only one with a raised eyebrow here? Nowhere have I said for example that my technique is "impeccable", nor described my music as being the way forward, (both claims and so many others are ridiculously funny though David so please keep similar coming). Am I missing a trick there one wonders....nahh. You could do me a great favour by changing your online name to K522 (D), just to keep me and some others amused. I particularly like the bit about how you think your 'truth' has import within and beyond this forum. I'm afraid you're just too full of ignorant musical BS for that to happen.

So, back to sparring (you sure you are in the right weight division?). I see you are only going to write programme music, well that figures seeing that you do not have the ability or worse, the talent to acquire a sense of Beethovinian exploration and depth. You either lack an inner conviction, are inadequate to the task, or just too lazy, preferring to rely on Him/Her or serendipity, instead of digging deep. Maybe ditch your co writer, perhaps He/She is dragging you down with a preponderance for bimbling, aimless lines and pads. It's understandable as to why absolute music is beyond you and to be fair it's not for everyone, nor might you want to go that route. However, don't think you can justify or hide purposeless (un)musical rhetoric and poor, ill-cultured workmanship under a banner of programmatic ambiguity because you can't. Inadequate and poorly conceived work laced with amateurism will be ignored or found out immediately in the workplace. This I tell you freely, objectively and truthfully for your own good.

I also see you are also purposely appealing to popular culture, now that is a good move, go with it - as Harry said, "a man's gotta know his limitations". Speaking of which, it would appear that necessity, being the mother of invention, has concocted a delusional and seemingly bitter facade to compensate for deficiencies and to try and obfuscate what is readily apparent to cultured ears - even Plato doesn't help your music I'm afraid. Perhaps you'll find a few fans online because you wont be getting near a professional orchestra any time soon with your current efforts. Again a truth that comes to you freely and without prejudice.

I've tried, but I can't help you anymore let alone take your subjective, vitriolic opinions and pronouncements at anything other than a sad, misguided curiosity. You'll be back on ignore soon as you were prior to this thread, so for your rejoinder, I'll give it a read, but don't work too hard on it as it'll be ineffectual. Make it your usual pithy yet vacuous, ill-informed remark and then spend your time more productively.
 

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I'm curious Mike, what do you think is so deficient and technically inadequate about his work? Could you maybe illustrate a specific example or two? I'd agree that 1996D has a long way to go as a composer and that his work is not nearly as special or excellent as he proclaims it to be, but I do think he's demonstrated a fair deal of talent and skill, and that his work is good enough that it should at least be "taken seriously".
 

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I'm curious Mike, what do you think is so deficient and technically inadequate about his work? Could you maybe illustrate a specific example or two? I'd agree that 1996D has a long way to go as a composer and that his work is not nearly as special or excellent as he proclaims it to be, but I do think he's demonstrated a fair deal of talent and skill, and that his work is good enough that it should at least be "taken seriously".
We'll have to respectfully disagree on that. I'll PM you later.
 

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I'm curious Mike, what do you think is so deficient and technically inadequate about his work? Could you maybe illustrate a specific example or two? I'd agree that 1996D has a long way to go as a composer and that his work is not nearly as special or excellent as he proclaims it to be, but I do think he's demonstrated a fair deal of talent and skill, and that his work is good enough that it should at least be "taken seriously".
I have nothing against Dave. I find him entertaining, but it sounds he was composing entirely by ear and on a whim. It is most painfully obvious when he attempts to weave parts together. The individual parts are also suspect. He has no contrapuntal skill. I feel he is creating an illusion there is something in his music, the themes go nowhere. There is zero originality. It's basically glorified ambient music that reminds one of Mahler.
 

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it sounds he was composing entirely by ear and on a whim.
That may be OK if a composer is truly gifted. The problem arises when he/she is not, then nothing makes "sense".

He has no contrapuntal skill.
That's not a requirement for all composers or all compositions. So it's no big deal.

There is zero originality.
I never worry about "originality", just not imitation. However, in David's case he claimed this was the future of music and what he wrote no one has attempted before. And now that I've heard it, I can say that was BS

It's basically glorified ambient music that reminds one of Mahler.
Ambiant music? Yes. But Mahler works with thematic material and clear structures, instrumental colors and changes of moods. David pounds to death very long stretches of loud, slow moving sounds that is a mass of many instruments tutti so the mood and color rarely changes. It goes no where and tires the ear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 ·
Ambiant music? Yes. But Mahler works with thematic material and clear structures, instrumental colors and changes of moods. David pounds to death very long stretches of loud, slow moving sounds that is a mass of many instruments tutti so the mood and color rarely changes. It goes no where and tires the ear.
It's programmatic music depicting something specific.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
"How a composers' ego can blind him"...am I the only one with a raised eyebrow here? Nowhere have I said for example that my technique is "impeccable", nor described my music as being the way forward, (both claims and so many others are ridiculously funny though David so please keep similar coming). Am I missing a trick there one wonders....nahh. You could do me a great favour by changing your online name to K522 (D), just to keep me and some others amused. I particularly like the bit about how you think your 'truth' has import within and beyond this forum. I'm afraid you're just too full of ignorant musical BS for that to happen.

So, back to sparring (you sure you are in the right weight division?). I see you are only going to write programme music, well that figures seeing that you do not have the ability or worse, the talent to acquire a sense of Beethovinian exploration and depth. You either lack an inner conviction, are inadequate to the task, or just too lazy, preferring to rely on Him/Her or serendipity, instead of digging deep. Maybe ditch your co writer, perhaps He/She is dragging you down with a preponderance for bimbling, aimless lines and pads. It's understandable as to why absolute music is beyond you and to be fair it's not for everyone, nor might you want to go that route. However, don't think you can justify or hide purposeless (un)musical rhetoric and poor, ill-cultured workmanship under a banner of programmatic ambiguity because you can't. Inadequate and poorly conceived work laced with amateurism will be ignored or found out immediately in the workplace. This I tell you freely, objectively and truthfully for your own good.

I also see you are also purposely appealing to popular culture, now that is a good move, go with it - as Harry said, "a man's gotta know his limitations". Speaking of which, it would appear that necessity, being the mother of invention, has concocted a delusional and seemingly bitter facade to compensate for deficiencies and to try and obfuscate what is readily apparent to cultured ears - even Plato doesn't help your music I'm afraid. Perhaps you'll find a few fans online because you wont be getting near a professional orchestra any time soon with your current efforts. Again a truth that comes to you freely and without prejudice.

I've tried, but I can't help you anymore let alone take your subjective, vitriolic opinions and pronouncements at anything other than a sad, misguided curiosity. You'll be back on ignore soon as you were prior to this thread, so for your rejoinder, I'll give it a read, but don't work too hard on it as it'll be ineffectual. Make it your usual pithy yet vacuous, ill-informed remark and then spend your time more productively.
Your music is unlistenable for more than a dozen seconds (yet you are twice my age and thus have twice the experience) and I guarantee you will be forgotten very quickly by even the very small number of people who have listened to your music.

The cultural irrelevancy of where you lurk is beyond what I can write or even imagine the pain of being in.

It is not hard at all to ignore your opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
I have nothing against Dave. I find him entertaining, but it sounds he was composing entirely by ear and on a whim. It is most painfully obvious when he attempts to weave parts together. The individual parts are also suspect. He has no contrapuntal skill. I feel he is creating an illusion there is something in his music, the themes go nowhere. There is zero originality. It's basically glorified ambient music that reminds one of Mahler.
You still haven't gotten the purpose of the work, which is all it is, a work, and doesn't represent anything more than book 8 of The Republic and the ambiguity of political systems - the aggressive and sharp transition from one to the other - and their unjust yet behind the curtain nature. It is a political and philosophical work, yet all you see with your blinders on is what you want to see.

I never worry about "originality", just not imitation. However, in David's case he claimed this was the future of music and what he wrote no one has attempted before. And now that I've heard it, I can say that was BS
It's the work as a whole, the form, and the potential to appeal to audiences that's the innovation. It breaks the cycle of cultural irrelevancy that contemporary composers have dug classical music in - and what a hole it is.
 
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Your music is unlistenable for more than a dozen seconds (yet you are twice my age and thus have twice the experience) and I guarantee you will be forgotten very quickly by even the very small number of people who have listened to your music.

The cultural irrelevancy of where you lurk is beyond what I can write or even imagine the pain of being in.

It is not hard at all to ignore your opinion.
Nurse! He's out of his bed again!
 
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