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I watched a video version of die zauberflote with my wife a few days ago but had to switch off half way as she felt it was unfair on mothers!
how to answer that one?
how to answer that one?
Magic Flute - Unfair on mothers?
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Well, in the Ingmar Bergman film, Papagena was clearly a going-to-be-mother, and no doubt a pretty darn good one. 
Well the powers that be at the time of Le Nozze's composition sure thought so! Rather brave of Mozart to set Da Ponte's swipe at nobility to music.
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I'd say that there isn't much of an answer to that; the opera is unreasonable to women, including mothers. Sarastro says that Pamina needs to be guided by a man, not allowing for the possibility of a different woman (or even Pamina herself having agency). Papageno is also a ridiculous character, who is after a wife... without regards to who that person is.
Then, on a different offensive front, we have Monostatos, the other villain of the piece.
It is a sexist, racist piece of work. This, unfortunately, does not make it stand out that much in the world of classic opera (or other art forms from the same time periods for that matter). I truly believe that this can be a significant impediment to enjoying opera for some people. I know I am very careful about operas I recommend others see.
Sometimes understanding and discussing the offensiveness can provide enough distance to enjoy the other merits of the work (such as the delightful music). Sometimes a production will have a different spin or de-emphasize some of the more problematic parts.
Kenneth Branagh's 2006 English-language adaptation was an attempt to remove some of the sexist and racist implications of the text... but I don't believe they were entirely successful.
These methods will certainly not work for everybody or for every opera; if someone is offended by something turning it off (or leaving) is a reasonable option.
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Now that we are enlightened enough to realize that each of us can be a member of at least one minority group, even if we are the only member of the group, we should all have no difficulty finding some great work of art to be offended by.
And now that we have reached this stage of progress, the next step is to enact legislation requiring the labeling of all works of art with the specific minorities they are likely to offend and their degree of offensiveness. This will ensure that impressionable adults are not inadvertantly exposed to materials with which they are mentally and emotionally unprepared to cope.
And now that we have reached this stage of progress, the next step is to enact legislation requiring the labeling of all works of art with the specific minorities they are likely to offend and their degree of offensiveness. This will ensure that impressionable adults are not inadvertantly exposed to materials with which they are mentally and emotionally unprepared to cope.
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... and to insist that they are sold in plain wrappers, that they cannot be played indoors, that there is a version for those with nut allergies etc etc
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We have been here before have we not? Telling the people what they may or may not read or see? Artists being banned from working in their own countries and seeking political and artistic freedom elsewhere? it all sounds too familiar...
Has political correctness gone mad? What with the thread on the Mikado being racist, and now this.... it beggars belief!
As for Shakespeare being "Cleaned up" by Sir Kenneth.... well that been done before as well
remember "Bowdlerise"? just google it if you don't already know.
I think that it is time for me to leave this forum.
There are too many disturbances, strange threads and well.....enough!
I take my leave of TC.
Bye
Has political correctness gone mad? What with the thread on the Mikado being racist, and now this.... it beggars belief!
As for Shakespeare being "Cleaned up" by Sir Kenneth.... well that been done before as well
remember "Bowdlerise"? just google it if you don't already know.
I think that it is time for me to leave this forum.
There are too many disturbances, strange threads and well.....enough!
I take my leave of TC.
Bye
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^^^^ that would be a terrible loss, Pip
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Sit down and watch Il Trovatore or Elektra. After Azucena and Klytamnetsra, maybe the Queen of the Night won't seem so bad.
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I don't really see Magic Flute as racist or misogynist honestly. Most of it deals with Freemasonry and a celebration of humanity to conquer over forces of chaos in society...
But myself being too naive doesn't see otherwise.
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I think she could win Mother of the Year compared to say....Donizetti's Lucrezia Borgia.
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"We" also might need to remember that "I'm offended, therefore it is offensive," is no better of an argument.
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No one's ever compelled to do homage to the suzerain thought police- however much they may Jedi-mind-trick into getting one to think otherwise. ;D
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I say "we" because I am not offended either. This reminds me of the movie scene in Father of the Bride.
Grocery Manager: "Sir, why don't we calm down?"
George Banks: "I'll tell you why we don't calm down. I'm the only one who's upset, and it takes two of us for a we to calm down!
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"I'm offended therefore it is offensive to me" is perfectly reasonable; that is more or less how this thread started. It is not reported that the OP's wife said "no one should watch this" or "this should be banned." Hyperbole of the sort has come up in this thread but it has all been sarcastic.
"I'm not offended, therefore you should not be offended" is a poor answer to the OP. I don't think anyone in this thread - myself included - has given a reasonable answer to the OP.
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