More depressing Bach works?

Pugg said:

You give the answer yourself, I must admit, not a real fanatic organ fan.
( I dive now)

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Relax.
I've met many of them before, and they're still alive (I think).

Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier (BWV 634) from his Orgelbüchlein is almost certainly the most grief-stricken piece of music ever written. The organ is basically crying (heavily) for about two minutes, and then one's left with this queer feeling of utter meaninglessness.

True. The sarabandes are Bach at his most serious, whether it be the keyboard partitas, cello suites or unaccompanied violin sonatas.

No problem for me. At social functions, I would only do the slow dances anyway.

Forss said:

Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier (BWV 634) from his Orgelbüchlein is almost certainly the most grief-stricken piece of music ever written. The organ is basically crying (heavily) for about two minutes, and then one's left with this queer feeling of utter meaninglessness.

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Interesting. I find BWV 634 rather uplifting.

The II Adagio section of Bach Harpsichord Concerto No 1 in D minor, BWV 1052. Not depressing, but yearning for some kind of a smile.

Bulldog said:

Interesting. I find BWV 634 rather uplifting.

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Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Someone chose it for my grandfather's funeral service (probably himself) and I remember thinking that it was uplifting. It sounds slightly different on # different organs, but I've never felt it to be depressing and certainly not like weeping.

I can see why one would think that, and how one can find strength in rather sad pieces, too. Perhaps it's uplifting eo ipso?

Forss said:

Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier (BWV 634) from his Orgelbüchlein is almost certainly the most grief-stricken piece of music ever written. The organ is basically crying (heavily) for about two minutes, and then one's left with this queer feeling of utter meaninglessness.

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In your reception then, Bach utterly failed to express the mood of the chorale lyrics.

Dearest Jesus, we are here
To listen to you and your word.
Direct our minds and desires
to the delightful teaching of heaven:
so that from the earth our hearts
may be completely drawn to you.

To me, all Bach's organ chorales on Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier have a moving and comforting effect.
(But again: taste and reception differ.)

The Gigue of the 1st French suite (BWV 812).

There's something extremely menacing about this movement, as if something is crawling towards you and you're choking from a panic attack.

And of course, I've had many people tell me that the famous "canon a 2 per tonos" (you know, the one everyone knows from Godel Escher Bach) sounds disorienting (of course) and somewhat unnerving.

The Allegro of BWV 1003 and the opening of BWV 922 also sound quite haunting, but everything else not mentioned by Bach is beautiful, comforting - there's even hope in the darkest parts of the St. Matthew Passion, or when he cries out de profundis in Clavier Ubung III.

bioluminescentsquid said:

The Gigue of the 1st French suite (BWV 812).

There's something extremely menacing about this movement, as if something is crawling towards you and you're choking from a panic attack.

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Depends much upon whether it is played in binary or triple rhythm. This a matter of dispute, as for the gigue of the sixth partita. The most probable (it is after all about gigues) is triple rhythm, but as to me I prefer binary rhythm, this being the most expressive.

Marc said:

In your reception then, Bach utterly failed to express the mood of the chorale lyrics.

To me, all Bach's organ chorales on Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier have a moving and comforting effect.
(But again: taste and reception differ.)

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Agree very much.

A rendering with reeds (vox humana) and tremulant may sound disturbing, and some organists play it (BWV 633/634) in that way, but this is not the way I prefer it.

bioluminescentsquid said:

[...] there's even hope in the darkest parts of the St. Matthew Passion, or when he cries out de profundis in Clavier Ubung III.

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The latter (BWV 686) is one of my favourites, although I do understand when people get anxious listening to this pleno piece with thundering pedal tones. I'm not a religious person, but mostly this piece fills me with strength, because it somehow appeals to my stronger self.

premont said:

Agree very much.

A rendering with reeds (vox humana) and tremulant may sound disturbing, and some organists play it (BWV 633/634) in that way, but this is not the way I prefer it.

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Yes, choice of registration can make a huge difference.

Sidestep:
I attended Wim van Beek's final organ demonstration in the Groningen Martinikerk (must have been in 2014). Hidden from our eyesight, behind the Rugpositief, he was talking with a soft, almost weak voice about the Vox humana stop, saying something like "this stop was meant to represent the human voice, but the attempt was not always succesful. If you attend an organ concert and you hear something that sounds like a mocking goat, then it's probably the Vox humana."

premont said:

Depends much upon whether it is played in binary or triple rhythm. This a matter of dispute, as for the gigue of the sixth partita. The most probable (it is after all about gigues) is triple rhythm, but as to me I prefer binary rhythm, this being the most expressive.

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Haha, the gigue of the 6th partita is indeed controversial (listening to Wim Winters' recording of it now; it's quite odd in it sounds like triple meter but is in binary); Bach is notorious for writing gigue-like pieces that aren't true gigues.