Classical Music Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 90 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I wanted to give this thread a sub-title, 'Mozart, Morons, and the search for intelligent life on Earth' but demythologising an icon of the stature of Mozart is thirsty work - so I decided to reduce it simply to 'Mozart and Mythology' while I make time for a cup of tea. // Pause//

Act 1

Judge (to Prisoner) - You stand accused of bringing in to disrepute one of the great iconic characters of western civilization, Wolfgang - Amadeus - Mozart. Have you anything further to say before the verdict is given ? And do you plead guilty ?

Prisoner - Has - a - crime - been - committed ?

Judge - Would you be standing here is no crime had been committed ? Slander, libel and defamation of character come to mind.

Prisoner - Oh yes, Mozart slandered, libelled and defamed many people - mostly musicians - dozens of examples in his correspondence.

Judge - I am not talking of him. But of your crimes.

Prisoner - Do you not mean my 'alleged' crimes ?

Judge - You are saying that Mozart had virtually no school education - that he rarely, in fact, had any music tuition, and that he did NOT compose music like taking dictation from God, yes ?

Prisoner - Yes, My Lord

Judge - And you believe students in schools should not be told that Mozart was a genius ?

Prisoner - Yes, My Lord

Judge - And that this icon of Rome and of the Holy Roman Empire was, in fact, little more than a fake ?

Prisoner - Yes, My Lord

(LOL) -COMMERCIAL BREAK -
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
*Commerical Break*

*K.525 in the background*

We present you the complete works of one of the greatest composers the world has ever seen.

Listen to the greatest symphonies, operas and concertos written by the Genius of Wolfgang-Amadeus-Mozart

The Complete Mozart Edition
$$$$$$$$$$
Shipping+Handling charges


:D :D :D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I mean that virtually everything Mozart wrote is Nachtmusik and that there is so much attributed to him that we cannot call it Kleine. It is huge.

But since you are in the marketing business here's an idea. Consider how many works once attributed to Herr Mozart have been ditched from the accepted list over the last 200 years or so. You could make at least a dozen more CD's, right ? Mozart fans would love to hear them. And they'd sell well just by association with his name. Yes ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
415 Posts
Can't wait. I doubt this is the first internet "soap" but Coronation Street got boring all those years ago so a new slant might be entertaining.

Basically you've raised some issues for thought. One need look no further than today to see how celebrities' stories are glamorised, and I do know that Mozart farmed out a few symphonies...a CD booklet says as much of the 37th (I think)... so I wouldn't be the least surprised to learn ultimately that a lot of his other stuff got passed to agencies....

Common sense more than academia....Other CD inlays suggest that he spent most of his time playing, boozing and copulating, so how he could write all that music in about 30 years...well, I wish I had his energy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Judge - Come a bit closer, so that we don't need to shout - yes, take a seat - fine !

(I wouldn't wish to judge you without first giving you a fair hearing)

Prisoner - Well, frankly, I was starting to think you didn't believe in a fair hearing

Judge - Why is that ?

Prisoner - There being no jury, for example - Just you and me

Judge - And why should that work against you ?

Prisoner - Isn't that a Inquisition ? I mean, you believe I am guilty. There is no sense of me being 'innocent till proved guilty' - you just said, for example, that I would not be standing here unless there were crimes etc.

Judge - I mean there are definitely issues that you are accountable for, whether you are guilty or not.

Prisoner - So this is NOT an inquisitorial trial ?

Judge - No, it's a trial. And, as you see (Judge points to the court stenographer) records of this trial are being made and will be part of the public record

Prisoner - I see, but............

Judge - There are no buts

Prisoner - But is there the assumption of guilt ?

Judge - There is the rightful concern of the public. But as to whether you are guilty of these crimes is, well, down to me to decide

Prisoner - Crimes ? Has it been established that crimes have been committed ?

Judge - So says the public - and I serve them

Prisoner - And do you agree with them ?

Judge - I will answer that when I deliver my verdict. But for the time being, you cannot deny that you are accused of all sorts of mischief. You are specifically accused of slander, libel and defamation against Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - and there is hardly a member of the public who can speak in your favour. Unless you can defend yourself I will make my judgement here and now, so that justice will be done.

Prisoner - This is a strange court

Judge - It is no stranger than the case itself

Prisoner - It IS as strange as the case itself

Judge - It is rare, for sure

Prisoner - And you have heard enough on which to form a judgement ?

Judge - Yes

Prisoner - Then it only remains for me to ask permission to ask you yourself a question

Judge - To ask ME a question ?

Prisoner - If you can allow one to be part of these proceedings ?

Judge - It is highly unusual

Prisoner - As is the case itself my Lord

(Judge thinks for a moment)

Judge - Oh, very well, but make your question a simple one. We must make an end of this.

Prisoner - Thank you - In what sense are you qualified to judge this case ?

Judge - Oh, that's easy - in the sense that I am a qualified judge, and have been appointed to judge this case, under the law

Prisoner - But your answer is 'circular'. You say you are qualified to judge BECAUSE you are a 'qualified' judge. I am asking of the sense in which you are qualified.

Judge - In the legal, civic sense.

Prisoner - But the case is musical, and historical and biographical, and many other things, is it not ? Are you qualified in those senses ?

Judge - I allowed you ONE question and now you ask many

Prisoner - Then let me focus on the first of them. In what sense are you qualified to judge matters of music, history and biography in the matter of Mozart ?

Judge - I am NOT qualified in THOSE senses - and yet the people have given me authority in a legal sense

Prisoner - The same people who accuse me have given you authority in a case whose particulars you admit you are not qualified to judge.

Judge - I see no sense in this conversation. Let us break here and when we return you will summarise your defence.

///
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
Robert, this wouldn't happen to be a screenplay you're working on, is it? ;)
Not a screenplay but a draft of The Amadeus Coda (specially available for TC members and others who may care to visit the site). :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
The next morning, the Judge found this letter on his desk :

« My Lord,
you are looking for a traitor, aren’t you.
I am the traitor. I confess everything.
I have never composed music for Mozart. I lied when I said I did.
I never composed anything.
It was Mozart and Haydn who have composed for me.

I am guilty. Condemn me.
Send me to the jail or Cut my head off, as you prefer.
Andrea Luchesi.”
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
LOL !

Mozart and Haydn both composed for Andrea Luchesi ? Brilliant !

The first problem is, of course, that the name of Andrea Luchesi was so brilliantly suppressed by texbooks for almost 200 years. (Surely the opposite of what was intended ? Such things are meant to inflate reputations and NOT to do the very opposite, yes ?). And we still wait to know from The Purple Wasp which 'Luchesi' works were composed by Haydn and Mozart. The Wasp's next post will make interesting reading, for sure.

Time to study the works of Luchesi either way, yes ? Time to admit wholesale fakery either way, yes ? Because, if the 'Luchesi Confession' is genuine you prove the very issue under dispute - that fakery was a major part of Haydn and Mozart's career. So we now have not one but TWO different theories saying the same thing.

You quote Luchesi saying 'I lied when I said I did'. It's a small point but, in fact, Luchesi NEVER claimed at any time to have composed music for Haydn and Mozart. When did Luchesi lie about this ? Ever ?

Gee, thanks Purple Wasp.
 
G

·
Yes, Mozart and Haydn both composed for Andrea Luchesi ! Brilliant !
I am making a strictly relevant post to this thread.

Your statement above is right, Mr Newman. This is the first time I agree with you. The Purple Wasp is brilliant. He's only been here 5 minutes and has you fully sussed out.

I'd like to nominate The Purple Wasp to be a Moderator on this Forum with immediate effect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Ah, very interesting. So when the other Mozart thread is threatened by management to be closed for getting onto ridiculous topics, the solution is not to discuss anything substantial, but rather to... post in a thread whose entire raison d'etre is to be ridiculous? Then, no matter what is posted, it will be on topic!

Brilliant.
 
G

·
Ah, very interesting. So when the other Mozart thread is threatened by management to be closed for getting onto ridiculous topics, the solution is not to discuss anything substantial, but rather to... post in a thread whose entire raison d'etre is to be ridiculous? Then, no matter what is posted, it will be on topic!

Brilliant.
In fact, the worse the nonsense posted here the better it fits the criterion of being "on topic".
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
348 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Purple Wasp has suggested (jokingly) that Mozart and Haydn faked music for Luchesi. But such a suggestion insulted nobody and there IS a serious side to this thread. It's a serious matter that things widely believed of Mozart are, in fact, based on nothing but tradition. People get really angry when their core myths are cross-examined (as we see). So the thread is called 'Mozart and Mythology'. The Easter Bunny and Father Christmas are two such examples. In the case of W/A/ Mozart his life and supposed works are actually so full of faked or falsified achievements that those who defend the 'statius quo' or who claim expertise in this area can rarely admit that their basic assumptions are baseless.

It's for this reason that such simple questions as 'Is the 'Mozart' signature on the manuscipt of the Requiem a fake ?' goes unanswered. A simple YES or NO would do. But mythmakers can't answer such a simple question.

Secondly, this thread opens AFTER a court hearing of the evidence for and against Mozart has already occurred. So we don't need to argue for weeks on this point or that. We will simply read here of the verdict on these issues from a judge.

I wonder if you will accept his verdict Mango ?
 
1 - 20 of 90 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top