[bz3]

I'd be satified if classical music is recognized openly for what it is: music by white males of the 18th century. It never was inclusive, because that's what it was.

This forum probably is not the best place to discuss this issue, either, because I suspect that the majority of members here are drawn to classical music for precisely those characteristics, which reinforces their lifestyle and identity.

If the definition of classical music is not recognized or spoken of as "music by white males of the 18th century," then this becomes a form of color blind racism. It's imperative that we recognize CM as "white" music made by white men.

Unequivocally agreed.

 

[BachIsBest]

The post-George Floyd era means black people don't have to follow rules if they don't feel like it and you, as a non-black person, have no right to complain about it. Indeed, it may be racist or even illegal (or should be) to complain. This station should be forced to hire not one black man to replace him but at least 10, and all of them should replace the top leadership. Racial utopia is just over the horizon.

I'm not sure whether this is serious or we're in a Poe's law scenario. If it is the later, I apologise, but would like clarification.

 

[Handelian]

The post-George Floyd era means black people don't have to follow rules if they don't feel like it and you, as a non-black person, have no right to complain about it. Indeed, it may be racist or even illegal (or should be) to complain. This station should be forced to hire not one black man to replace him but at least 10, and all of them should replace the top leadership. Racial utopia is just over the horizon.

One American university has now stipulated that all students should be vaccinated against cover-19 to use the library but in the aftermath of george floyd affair black students need not feel so obligated

 

[Haydn70]

"the extreme hysteria around racism these days"

I know nothing about you, other than you're from Toronto, but on the surface this phrase is the most racist thing I've seen all day.

Racism is the continued lynchings of POC since colonial days. Being sensitive to that isn't being "hysterical" (which, not surprisingly, is quite the loaded misogynistic insult word*); it's acknowledging that from the terrible killings of George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery, to the countless, untold acts of racism that take place every day across America, these are the issues that are defining the moment, just as our response will define who we are and will be in the 21st century and beyond.

Truly, the very nature of our "national soul" is at stake, and we all have a deep responsibility to be a part of the solution.

* "Hysterical is a sexist term (as are the words hysteric, hysterics, and hyteria).

It originates from the greek word hystera - the womb. It was originally used in the 1800s to describe a neurotic condition that is caused by the dysfunction of the uterus. Its meaning changed with the centuries to "unhealthy emotions or excitement". In the 19th and 20th century a way to heal a woman from her hysteria was through a clitoridectomy. A clitoridectomy is the removal of the clitoris. Until the 1950s doctors used "hysteria" to describe multiple mental health issues, used almost exclusively in regards to women. Imagine: You go to see your doctor because you don't feel well. Instead of giving you a diagnosis, he/she calls you "hysterical" and sends you home without proper treatment. Today people mainly use it to describe women, who cannot control themselves or are too emotional (because..you know..women have a uterus). To call a man hysterical means that he is behaving "unmanly", another insult inferring that women aren't "strong" like men, which in tern infers inferiority.

.

Or maybe I'm just being "hysterical"?

And your post is the most ridiculous one I have seen in a while here on TC....and that is saying something considering all the PC BS on this site.

 

[millionrainbows]

That is the key to understand racial issues. That is what we should do - take the race out of the argument. We should talk about human dignity regardless of the skin colour.
When someone points out his/hers or other persons skin colour they become racist right there. Slogan "black lives matter" is as racist as any other one that is based on skin colour.

But this is denial: acting as if a problem doesn't exist. The first thing we need to do is "recognize that there is a problem."

 

[millionrainbows]

The post-George Floyd era means black people don't have to follow rules if they don't feel like it and you, as a non-black person, have no right to complain about it. Indeed, it may be racist or even illegal (or should be) to complain. This station should be forced to hire not one black man to replace him but at least 10, and all of them should replace the top leadership. Racial utopia is just over the horizon.

You poor victim!

 

[vivalagentenuova]

I'd be satified if classical music is recognized openly for what it is: music by white males of the 18th century.

That's an obviously true fact about classical music, but making it the definition of classical music as you suggest:

If the definition of classical music is not recognized or spoken of as "music by white males of the 18th century," then this becomes a form of color blind racism.

is absurd, in my view. Of course classical music was largely created by white Europeans. I don't think anybody has disputed that fact or could. What some people have, rightly, in my view, objected to, is saying that that is either a) an important aspect of the aesthetic substance of classical music or b) a major factor in their enjoyment of classical music.

It would probably help if you clearly defined what you mean by "white music". Does that mean any music created by white people? If so, why is their skin tone such an important defining feature of the music?

I also contest the way you use the term "color blind racism". Race is a false concept. It's not biologically valid. It doesn't exist, except as a social construction, largely created to justify economic exploitation. It wrongly identifies skin tone with other biological phenomena that are in reality independent of skin tone. Some people use that fact to deny that there is such a thing as racism. Racism is a real thing, just as people really did have a prejudice against witches even though there weren't any. That deserves the name color blind racism. "I'm not racist and race doesn't exist so nobody experiences racism" is stupid color blindness. Believing that not everything a person does, such as create beautiful music, can be attributed to or identified with their skin tone, is not racist. Just the opposite, in fact.

And that's why most members here like it.

If you are curious as to why your posts result in enmity in many members, look no further than vague, unsubstantiated accusations like this.

 

[Bulldog]

But this is denial: acting as if a problem doesn't exist. The first thing we need to do is "recognize that there is a problem."

It's a good thing you are a TC member. If there's a problem to identify, you're the man for the job.

 

[bz3]

That's an obviously true fact about classical music, but making it the definition of classical music as you suggest:

is absurd, in my view. Of course classical music was largely created by white Europeans. I don't think anybody has disputed that fact or could. What some people have, rightly, in my view, objected to, is saying that that is either a) an important aspect of the aesthetic substance of classical music or b) a major factor in their enjoyment of classical music.

It would probably help if you clearly defined what you mean by "white music". Does that mean any music created by white people? If so, why is their skin tone such an important defining feature of the music?

I also contest the way you use the term "color blind racism". Race is a false concept. It's not biologically valid. It doesn't exist, except as a social construction, largely created to justify economic exploitation. It wrongly identifies skin tone with other biological phenomena that are in reality independent of skin tone. Some people use that fact to deny that there is such a thing as racism. Racism is a real thing, just as people really did have a prejudice against witches even though there weren't any. That deserves the name color blind racism. "I'm not racist and race doesn't exist so nobody experiences racism" is stupid color blindness. Believing that not everything a person does, such as create beautiful music, can be attributed to or identified with their skin tone, is not racist. Just the opposite, in fact.

If you are curious as to why your posts result in enmity in many members, look no further than vague, unsubstantiated accusations like this.

Imagine only being 2017 levels of woke like this guy. Race does exist and it's the most important thing in the history of corporeal reality. That is 2021 level woke, that is who we are now. It is possible for race to transcend the metaphysical realm, I am not sure and will leave that to experts like Nikole Hannah Jones and Robin D'Angelo, but as of this date in the year of our Bla-errr unstated race Lord 2021 race is the most real thing that exists.

Descartes's little known corollary was 'I think therefore I am whi-errr woke.'